The District wants $26 million in public incentives

[thelakelander]

 

City Hall would have a steep financial investment — up to $26 million — in the highly anticipated but long-delayed development planned on Jacksonville’s Southbank, according to a draft proposal released Wednesday that seeks to prop up the stalled project.

The proposal — hammered out in secret — adds layers of complexity and taxpayer risk to what was once planned to be a straightforward transaction between JEA and a private development group that promised nothing short of a transformational mixed-use project on 30 acres of utility-owned waterfront land.

Full article: http://jacksonville.com/metro/news/2017-12-20/proposal-shows-taxpayers-would-invest-heavily-delayed-southbank-project

[MusicMan]

As Gomer Pyle once said: "Surprise, surprise, surprise!"

What an effing joke.  This is our city in a nutshell.  A complete boondoggle and 3 years in the making.  Tell "Elements" to get lost, and put it back up for purchase. 

Of course with Jacksonville, the guys who own the Publix San Marco site (Regency?) will pick it up........

[thelakelander]

A Southbank project needs $26 million in incentives? I'd love to see that type of money put into refurbishing the historic preservation trust fund.

[Transman]

Kinda crazy, the city decides to get into the land development business.  This should never happen, I don't believe being a developer is in the city charter.  The City needs to start over on the parcel.  Just sell it to the highest bidder and move on.  The fact they need the help is all you need to know. 

[Jagsdrew]

The city really needs to get out of the property management and ownership business. Really is ridiculous they hold this land for years and years, sell it to a developer for cents on the dollar and also give them tax incentives.

I need to develop and build something. I'm in the wrong business.

[acme54321]

“If it was proposed and indicated that the city would have put up $26 million on infrastructure, I’m pretty sure we would have had additional bidders three and a half years ago,”

Good point.  JEA needs to nip this one in the bud and put this thing back out on the street.  What a waste of time.

[Josh]

The city really needs to get out of the property management and ownership business. Really is ridiculous they hold this land for years and years, sell it to a developer for cents on the dollar and also give them tax incentives.

I need to develop and build something. I'm in the wrong business.

Kinda crazy, the city decides to get into the land development business.  This should never happen, I don't believe being a developer is in the city charter.  The City needs to start over on the parcel.  Just sell it to the highest bidder and move on.  The fact they need the help is all you need to know.

This isn't the city's land, it's JEA's. It definitely needs to go back on the market after this mess.

[CityLife]

I thought this was an ok project for Jax if Rummell's group was going to assume most of the risk for a legacy type project. That said, there are better opportunities to stimulate catalytic projects on the northbank for that type of investment. 

The District is essentially landlocked. There are single family homes/BK to the southeast and 95 to the south/southwest. There are some opportunities to fill in those ridiculous surface lots to the west, but by and large there are not many other redevelopment opportunities nearby. The District would essentially be an island unto itself, not integrated into the fabric of Downtown.  Downtown needs an Orange Avenue (Orlando), Clematis Street (WPB), Las Olas (Ft. Lauderdale) type shopping, dining, and entertainment district; not a large scale Tapestry Park project that is not integrated into a larger urban area.

[thelakelander]

Totally agree!

[MusicMan]

Lets simplify this whole project.  It's 30 acres. That should hold 100 single family homes.  At $350,000 per home that puts $35,000,000 into the tax role, and a nice community could thrive there. You might be able to get more for a nice 3/2 with 2000 sf there. Add some community amenities like a pool, fitness center, riverwalk  and marina and it would sell out quickly.   A monthly HOA ( lets say $200) would be paid to JEA and provide income for the next 100 years ( in addition to the income from selling the parcel).   ($20,000 per month)

JEA needs to move on and stop pretending to be a real estate developer. 

This whole enterprise again illustrated why the RFP process is ridiculous.

[marcuscnelson]

Lets simplify this whole project.  It's 30 acres. That should hold 100 single family homes.  At $350,000 per home that puts $35,000,000 into the tax role, and a nice community could thrive there. You might be able to get more for a nice 3/2 with 2000 sf there. Add some community amenities like a pool, fitness center, riverwalk  and marina and it would sell out quickly.   A monthly HOA ( lets say $200) would be paid to JEA and provide income for the next 100 years ( in addition to the income from selling the parcel).   ($20,000 per month)

JEA needs to move on and stop pretending to be a real estate developer. 

This whole enterprise again illustrated why the RFP process is ridiculous.

Maybe I'm too greedy for wanting more than a glorified subdivision directly on our downtown riverbank, but I want more than a glorified subdivision. Obviously Rummell isn't panning out, but I'd think we should be able to at least get a decent bit of density.

Didn't Rummell's plan for The District include townhouses on a section of it already?

[Noone]

The city really needs to get out of the property management and ownership business. Really is ridiculous they hold this land for years and years, sell it to a developer for cents on the dollar and also give them tax incentives.

I need to develop and build something. I'm in the wrong business.

Kinda crazy, the city decides to get into the land development business.  This should never happen, I don't believe being a developer is in the city charter.  The City needs to start over on the parcel.  Just sell it to the highest bidder and move on.  The fact they need the help is all you need to know.

This isn't the city's land, it's JEA's. It definitely needs to go back on the market after this mess.

+1

[thelakelander]

Lets simplify this whole project.  It's 30 acres. That should hold 100 single family homes.  At $350,000 per home that puts $35,000,000 into the tax role, and a nice community could thrive there. You might be able to get more for a nice 3/2 with 2000 sf there. Add some community amenities like a pool, fitness center, riverwalk  and marina and it would sell out quickly.   A monthly HOA ( lets say $200) would be paid to JEA and provide income for the next 100 years ( in addition to the income from selling the parcel).   ($20,000 per month)

JEA needs to move on and stop pretending to be a real estate developer. 

This whole enterprise again illustrated why the RFP process is ridiculous.

Maybe I'm too greedy for wanting more than a glorified subdivision directly on our downtown riverbank, but I want more than a glorified subdivision. Obviously Rummell isn't panning out, but I'd think we should be able to at least get a decent bit of density.

Didn't Rummell's plan for The District include townhouses on a section of it already?

Yes, it includes townhomes. This proposed deal sounds like the city is buying the land and building the infrastructure, while Rummell serves as a master developer, essentially flipping individual parcels to other groups to construct individual projects that align with the master plan.

[vicupstate]

Lets simplify this whole project.  It's 30 acres. That should hold 100 single family homes.  At $350,000 per home that puts $35,000,000 into the tax role, and a nice community could thrive there. You might be able to get more for a nice 3/2 with 2000 sf there. Add some community amenities like a pool, fitness center, riverwalk  and marina and it would sell out quickly.   A monthly HOA ( lets say $200) would be paid to JEA and provide income for the next 100 years ( in addition to the income from selling the parcel).   ($20,000 per month)

JEA needs to move on and stop pretending to be a real estate developer. 

This whole enterprise again illustrated why the RFP process is ridiculous.

Maybe I'm too greedy for wanting more than a glorified subdivision directly on our downtown riverbank, but I want more than a glorified subdivision. Obviously Rummell isn't panning out, but I'd think we should be able to at least get a decent bit of density.

Didn't Rummell's plan for The District include townhouses on a section of it already?

Yes, it includes townhomes. This proposed deal sounds like the city is buying the land and building the infrastructure, while Rummell serves as a master developer, essentially flipping individual parcels to other groups to construct individual projects that align with the master plan.

In other words, the city assumes the lionshare of the risk and Rummell gets all the profits.

[thelakelander]

If the deal is configured this way (ex. city buys land and builds most of the infrastructure), what's the point of Rummell's involvement?