Author Topic: JAX/JIA updates  (Read 43669 times)

SirJax

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Re: JAX/JIA updates
« Reply #240 on: January 13, 2020, 06:47:25 AM »
I'm hoping for some new routes in 2020.

https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/local/duval-county/nonstop-flights-west-coast-europe-jacksonville-could-happen-by-2022/4B62EETV4JETVM627FSAFUW4CA/

This could happen in the next couple years as Delta is supposed to induct the new Airbus A220-300 into service later this year. This airplane could serve JAX-west coast flights more efficiently than existing equipment can (since it has the right combination of size, range and fuel efficiency).

vicupstate

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Re: JAX/JIA updates
« Reply #241 on: January 22, 2020, 09:41:34 AM »
https://upgradedpoints.com/fastest-growing-and-declining-us-airports-study-2020/

I guess JIA is one thing the city has somehow managed to not mess up.

"The problem with quotes on the internet is you can never be certain they're authentic." - Abraham Lincoln

JaxAvondale

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Re: JAX/JIA updates
« Reply #242 on: January 22, 2020, 10:15:41 AM »
I didn’t fly much in the 4th quarter but the surface lots were always packed. The security lines generally move at a good pace.

Steve

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Re: JAX/JIA updates
« Reply #243 on: January 22, 2020, 10:46:06 AM »
https://upgradedpoints.com/fastest-growing-and-declining-us-airports-study-2020/

I guess JIA is one thing the city has somehow managed to not mess up.

Diatribe warning.....

Very much so - though I'm jealous of Nashville as their growth (not mentioned in the article) is part of Delta making Nashville a "Focus City", where JAX's growth is mainly due to Low Cost Carriers. To me that makes Nashville's a little more secure in the long run. The big boys don't change hubs and focus cities very often unless it's related to a merger.

Delta and American aren't a candidate for major growth here, with AA's hubs in Charlotte and Miami, and Delta's hub in Atlanta, Focus City in RDU, and they just declared war on AA in Miami an are starting what looks like rapid growth there.

To me, JAX's play should be with United as they don't have a hub or focus city in the Southeast (nearest ones are Houston and Dulles), and with CEO Oscar Munoz living here that COULD have been a plus (though he's stepping down now). But, the bigger issue is United's financials aren't in a state where they can realistically take on a network expansion like that. Can't really blame JAX for that not happening.

The gate expansion will come in handy, and I think there's more room to grow here.

JaxAvondale

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Re: JAX/JIA updates
« Reply #244 on: January 22, 2020, 11:10:00 AM »
https://upgradedpoints.com/fastest-growing-and-declining-us-airports-study-2020/

I guess JIA is one thing the city has somehow managed to not mess up.

Diatribe warning.....

Very much so - though I'm jealous of Nashville as their growth (not mentioned in the article) is part of Delta making Nashville a "Focus City", where JAX's growth is mainly due to Low Cost Carriers. To me that makes Nashville's a little more secure in the long run. The big boys don't change hubs and focus cities very often unless it's related to a merger.

Delta and American aren't a candidate for major growth here, with AA's hubs in Charlotte and Miami, and Delta's hub in Atlanta, Focus City in RDU, and they just declared war on AA in Miami an are starting what looks like rapid growth there.

To me, JAX's play should be with United as they don't have a hub or focus city in the Southeast (nearest ones are Houston and Dulles), and with CEO Oscar Munoz living here that COULD have been a plus (though he's stepping down now). But, the bigger issue is United's financials aren't in a state where they can realistically take on a network expansion like that. Can't really blame JAX for that not happening.

The gate expansion will come in handy, and I think there's more room to grow here.

Delta just declared war in Miami with AA? Really?! I fly out of MIA often and I don’t see competitive pricing with Delta.

Steve

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Re: JAX/JIA updates
« Reply #245 on: January 22, 2020, 12:26:54 PM »
https://upgradedpoints.com/fastest-growing-and-declining-us-airports-study-2020/

I guess JIA is one thing the city has somehow managed to not mess up.

Diatribe warning.....

Very much so - though I'm jealous of Nashville as their growth (not mentioned in the article) is part of Delta making Nashville a "Focus City", where JAX's growth is mainly due to Low Cost Carriers. To me that makes Nashville's a little more secure in the long run. The big boys don't change hubs and focus cities very often unless it's related to a merger.

Delta and American aren't a candidate for major growth here, with AA's hubs in Charlotte and Miami, and Delta's hub in Atlanta, Focus City in RDU, and they just declared war on AA in Miami an are starting what looks like rapid growth there.

To me, JAX's play should be with United as they don't have a hub or focus city in the Southeast (nearest ones are Houston and Dulles), and with CEO Oscar Munoz living here that COULD have been a plus (though he's stepping down now). But, the bigger issue is United's financials aren't in a state where they can realistically take on a network expansion like that. Can't really blame JAX for that not happening.

The gate expansion will come in handy, and I think there's more room to grow here.

Delta just declared war in Miami with AA? Really?! I fly out of MIA often and I don’t see competitive pricing with Delta.

Yes, very much so:

1. AA (of the big 3 US airlines, far and away the biggest to South America) and LATAM (#1 carrier in South America) were applying for a joint venture (tightest type of alliance between airlines). Chilean government kicked it back, and it was expected that AA and LATAM would tweak it and seek re-approval.
2. But, Delta announced a few months ago they were buying 20% of LATAM, LATAM would no longer seek Joint Venture status with AA, and LATAM is leaving OneWorld (their global alliance with AA)
3. Delta announced they will greatly expand their presence in Miami
4. First wave of expansion was announced last week. They'll now have over 40 non stops from MIA. At present, Delta's MIA presence isn't THAT much larger than their JAX presence). They're adding 5 new cities, including Orlando (Which they dropped prior to all this happening) and Tampa - no JAX unfortunately.

Related, AA announced a large Boston expansion, which is a Delta hub.

It will likely will take a few months to shake out when it comes to fares, but it's about to get real between these two.

JaxAvondale

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Re: JAX/JIA updates
« Reply #246 on: January 22, 2020, 01:20:43 PM »
Thanks for the explanation! I would love to see some Jax-Bos routes on AA. It would make for an easier trip to Europe.


I saw a survey from the JBJ requesting input on direct flights to Asia from Orlando. It will be interesting to see how that shakes out.

Steve

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Re: JAX/JIA updates
« Reply #247 on: January 22, 2020, 02:07:44 PM »
Thanks for the explanation! I would love to see some Jax-Bos routes on AA. It would make for an easier trip to Europe.


I saw a survey from the JBJ requesting input on direct flights to Asia from Orlando. It will be interesting to see how that shakes out.

I can definitely see that working, particularly service from Tokyo-Narita or Seoul-Incheon.

The bad thing is, I feel like the biggest thing standing in the way of a nonstop from JAX over the pond to Europe (aside from market size and geography) is Orlando. If you look at recent mid-sized cities to get a nonstop to Europe, they're markets that aren't two hours from a larger airport with already scheduled flights - Charleston and Indianapolis come to mind.

Additionally, while mid-sized cities Charleston and Indy are the largest cities in their state and great candidates to get state incentives. If I'm in the Florida State government and JAX comes to me for incentives to subsidize a route to London or Paris, I'm not inclined to support it. I'd rather use the incentives to launch from Orlando which has a much stronger likelihood of being able to sustain itself without the incentives, Jacksonville folks can drive the 2 hours, and oh BTW, Miami is now the #3 international gateway behind JFK and LAX.

JaxAvondale

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Re: JAX/JIA updates
« Reply #248 on: January 22, 2020, 03:19:49 PM »
My thought process was that you could get a JAX-LGW route on AA/BA or a Jax-Orly route with the expansion of B gate which would likely pull some southern/coastal GA money into FL. However, I agree becoming a focus city even on United would likely aid an international route in Jax.

jaxlongtimer

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Re: JAX/JIA updates
« Reply #249 on: January 25, 2020, 04:00:19 PM »
The bad thing is, I feel like the biggest thing standing in the way of a nonstop from JAX over the pond to Europe (aside from market size and geography) is Orlando. If you look at recent mid-sized cities to get a nonstop to Europe, they're markets that aren't two hours from a larger airport with already scheduled flights - Charleston and Indianapolis come to mind.

Additionally, while mid-sized cities Charleston and Indy are the largest cities in their state and great candidates to get state incentives. If I'm in the Florida State government and JAX comes to me for incentives to subsidize a route to London or Paris, I'm not inclined to support it. I'd rather use the incentives to launch from Orlando which has a much stronger likelihood of being able to sustain itself without the incentives, Jacksonville folks can drive the 2 hours, and oh BTW, Miami is now the #3 international gateway behind JFK and LAX.

What about the relationship between Tampa and Orlando?  If Tampa has international flights and is closer to Orlando than Jax, it would seem at some point we could get our fair share.  I realize Tampa is a larger market but it has a good number of international flights (see below).  Couldn't we get at least one flight to London, Paris or Amsterdam :) ?

Quote
Nonstop service from TPA - International cities:

*indicates seasonal service

Amsterdam    AMS    Delta*
Cancun    CUN    Delta*
Frankfurt    FRA    Lufthansa
Grand Cayman    GCM    Cayman Airways
Halifax    YHZ    Air Canada*
Hamilton    YHM    Swoop*
Havana    HAV    Southwest
London-Gatwick    LGW    British Airways, Norwegian
Montreal    YUL    Air Canada*
Nassau    NAS    Silver Airways
Ottawa    YOW    Air Canada*
Panama City    PTY    Copa
St. John's    YYT    Westjet*
Toronto    YYZ    Air Canada, Westjet
Winnipeg    YWG    Swoop*
Zurich    ZHR    Edelweiss Air

Steve

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Re: JAX/JIA updates
« Reply #250 on: January 26, 2020, 12:46:12 AM »
The bad thing is, I feel like the biggest thing standing in the way of a nonstop from JAX over the pond to Europe (aside from market size and geography) is Orlando. If you look at recent mid-sized cities to get a nonstop to Europe, they're markets that aren't two hours from a larger airport with already scheduled flights - Charleston and Indianapolis come to mind.

Additionally, while mid-sized cities Charleston and Indy are the largest cities in their state and great candidates to get state incentives. If I'm in the Florida State government and JAX comes to me for incentives to subsidize a route to London or Paris, I'm not inclined to support it. I'd rather use the incentives to launch from Orlando which has a much stronger likelihood of being able to sustain itself without the incentives, Jacksonville folks can drive the 2 hours, and oh BTW, Miami is now the #3 international gateway behind JFK and LAX.

What about the relationship between Tampa and Orlando?  If Tampa has international flights and is closer to Orlando than Jax, it would seem at some point we could get our fair share.  I realize Tampa is a larger market but it has a good number of international flights (see below).  Couldn't we get at least one flight to London, Paris or Amsterdam :) ?

Quote
Nonstop service from TPA - International cities:

*indicates seasonal service

Amsterdam    AMS    Delta*
Cancun    CUN    Delta*
Frankfurt    FRA    Lufthansa
Grand Cayman    GCM    Cayman Airways
Halifax    YHZ    Air Canada*
Hamilton    YHM    Swoop*
Havana    HAV    Southwest
London-Gatwick    LGW    British Airways, Norwegian
Montreal    YUL    Air Canada*
Nassau    NAS    Silver Airways
Ottawa    YOW    Air Canada*
Panama City    PTY    Copa
St. John's    YYT    Westjet*
Toronto    YYZ    Air Canada, Westjet
Winnipeg    YWG    Swoop*
Zurich    ZHR    Edelweiss Air

You said it-size of the city. Jax is a smaller city AND a decent driving distance to Orlando. Not to say it won’t happen. But, it doesn’t help.

Snaketoz

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Re: JAX/JIA updates
« Reply #251 on: January 26, 2020, 09:17:29 AM »
I have so many friends who drive to Orlando for both international and US flights.  They complain about the price of fares flying from JAX and the connections to both US and international cities.  That is the problem with getting more flights from JAX.  If you drive to Orlando, Orlando gets more flights!  Jacksonville loses!  I always fly from JAX because I know the airlines are looking at demand.  If you don't use JAX it looks as though JAX doesn't need those seats that MCO is filling.  Why drive a couple of hours, pay for gas, parking, and your time, only to hurt our chances of improving our air service?  If you fly, fly from home.  Help yourselves and our hopes for better service.

bl8jaxnative

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Re: JAX/JIA updates
« Reply #252 on: January 26, 2020, 01:44:46 PM »
Very much so - though I'm jealous of Nashville as their growth (not mentioned in the article) is part of Delta making Nashville a "Focus City", where JAX's growth is mainly due to Low Cost Carriers. To me that makes Nashville's a little more secure in the long run.

Nashville's become a sort of red neck Vegas of the east.   It's it's own wonderful thing in many ways, too.  The result is a butt ton of O/D traffic disproportionate to the city's population.   Southwest Airlines already has a hub there.

As for driving to Orlando, I can understand doing it.  I don't want my grandma to have to switch planes when she comes and visits and MCO is the best choice for that.

As for cost, I'd be curious what their actual costs are.  A lot of people focus on certain aspects of pricing but not the total picture.    The problem I have with Orlando is that to fly out you either get a flight later in the day because you have 2 1/2 hr drive + 2 hours checkin before flight + 20 minutes remote parking or you get a hotel overnight.  For a noon flight I need to be in the car by 7am to make sure I don't get caught up in traffic in JAX.  And I'll probably hit some in Orlando.

Maybe they're lured by the pricing Frontier, Spirit and others provide.  When you start comparing apples to apples those prices aren't always so cheap.     They're good for some folks in some situations.  From my experience though a lot of folks aren't good at making sure they're comparing the same thing nor pricing in risk nor pricing in driving nor pricing in their time.


Question - Does anyone who drives to MCO.  Do you prefer to vear off of I95 onto I-4 and go through Orlando?  Or do you take I95 down to Cocoa and then FL528 straight across?

JaxAvondale

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Re: JAX/JIA updates
« Reply #253 on: January 27, 2020, 08:57:13 AM »
I tend to agree that flying out of MCO is a pain. However, I did take a direct flight to London (Gatwick) about a year ago and that was an easy trip with terrific flight times. I prefer to fly into Gatwick when possible because passport at Heathrow is awfully slow unless you have a Fast Pass.

I take 95 to I-4 then hop on 417 to get to 528.

Steve

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Re: JAX/JIA updates
« Reply #254 on: January 27, 2020, 09:38:51 AM »
I have so many friends who drive to Orlando for both international and US flights.  They complain about the price of fares flying from JAX and the connections to both US and international cities.  That is the problem with getting more flights from JAX.  If you drive to Orlando, Orlando gets more flights!  Jacksonville loses!  I always fly from JAX because I know the airlines are looking at demand.  If you don't use JAX it looks as though JAX doesn't need those seats that MCO is filling.  Why drive a couple of hours, pay for gas, parking, and your time, only to hurt our chances of improving our air service?  If you fly, fly from home.  Help yourselves and our hopes for better service.

MCO is definitely an tough dynamic to have nearby. Flights are unusually cheap as the disproportionate amount of leisure travelers drives fares down.

And as pointed out, the fare has to be MUCH cheaper, or you have a decent sized family going - as the drive, parking, etc. are usually the same if 1 person is flying or 5 people are flying.