Author Topic: Amazon $5 bil co-HQ's in play  (Read 49002 times)

vicupstate

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Re: Amazon $5 bil co-HQ's in play
« Reply #300 on: February 15, 2019, 02:34:19 PM »
Good point on Consolidation succeeding there, but I’m not sure it’s apples to apples. Other than maybe Franklin (which imo is overrated), there is not much around Nashville to draw population and power base to.  Jax has St. Augustine, Ponte Vedra Beach, and the Beaches.

The complaint with Consolidation isn't that St. Johns County or anywhere else takes all the power base, but that people INSIDE the consolidated city (but not in the core) will not support a strong urban core nor understand the importance of one.   
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Charles Hunter

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Re: Amazon $5 bil co-HQ's in play
« Reply #301 on: February 15, 2019, 02:41:03 PM »
For comparison to Jacksonville's 875 square miles, Nashville is 528 square miles.

In looking that up, I learned that they have a 40-member city council - 35 from districts (vs. Jax 14), and 5 at-large (like Jax).

And, thank you vicupstate, for saying what I was going to say about the lake of focus on the core.

CityLife

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Re: Amazon $5 bil co-HQ's in play
« Reply #302 on: February 15, 2019, 03:24:31 PM »
Good point on Consolidation succeeding there, but I’m not sure it’s apples to apples. Other than maybe Franklin (which imo is overrated), there is not much around Nashville to draw population and power base to.  Jax has St. Augustine, Ponte Vedra Beach, and the Beaches.

The complaint with Consolidation isn't that St. Johns County or anywhere else takes all the power base, but that people INSIDE the consolidated city (but not in the core) will not support a strong urban core nor understand the importance of one.

I may not have made the point clear. In Jax you have a City Council person that represents the Beaches, one that represents the Intracoastal, and an at large that represents both of those areas. To those 3 reps, the economy and well being of the Beach is more important than Downtown. Same goes for the Council people who border in SJC. To them a strong SJC may be better for their districts than a strong Downtown.

Nashville has more hegemony (and less regional competition) than Jax, therefore the consolidated government is more focused on the well being of the urban core of Nashville. That's my theory anyway.

vicupstate

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Re: Amazon $5 bil co-HQ's in play
« Reply #303 on: February 15, 2019, 03:54:02 PM »
Quote
For comparison to Jacksonville's 875 square miles, Nashville is 528 square miles.

I think Duval County is 840 of which about 35 sq miles are the Beaches and Baldwin.

Out of that 840 is over 100 sq miles that is city owned/controlled property that no one lives on.  Still a significant difference but I don't think enough of one to matter much.   
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Kerry

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Re: Amazon $5 bil co-HQ's in play
« Reply #304 on: February 15, 2019, 05:14:42 PM »
Sounds like all the local politicans, governor, and unions are upset trickeldown economics got pulled out from under them.
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jaxnyc79

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Re: Amazon $5 bil co-HQ's in play
« Reply #305 on: February 16, 2019, 03:22:49 PM »
Yeah, Nashville surpassed and has since lapped Jax. Was there over the holidays after not visiting for a long time and it’s incredible how much the City has grown. The Gulch area is impressive and there is a lot more stuff around there coming soon. My BIL works in RE development up there and shared some upcoming projects that Jax would drool over.

Yeah, Nashville has lapped us no doubt. Their one glaring weakness is transit, which shows no signs of being properly addressed.

I’m so proud of Charlotte and the light rail orientation of its transit authority.  The train cars are packed almost every time I’m
On them.  It’s been a while since I checked out Nashville but have read tons about it’s progress.  Charlotte is sort of missing a very large, renowned, prestigious  university within walkable proximity of its urban core.  That’s sort of where perhaps Nashville and Austin have us beat.  But yea, Jax has been edged out of this tier.  Hard to say whether Jax’s fall in standing and station are a result of anything Charlotte/Nashville did, or anything Jax didn’t do, but there’s been a relative fall indeed.  Perhaps these things just happen: big execs and corporates like mild weather but 4 clear seasons...prefer cities off the coasts...maybe easier to build without issues of low-country and drainage and wetlands...who knows.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2019, 03:24:25 PM by jaxnyc79 »

thelakelander

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Re: Amazon $5 bil co-HQ's in play
« Reply #306 on: February 16, 2019, 03:48:51 PM »
Being coastal didn't negatively impact Tampa or Miami, which both have continued to grow to be on notches above the Nashvilles, Charlottes, Austins, Orlandos of the south. There's some bad decisions that were made decades ago locally but many things were beyond local control. I imagine Jax's and Charlotte's fortunes would be different today if Barnett, Florida National, Atlantic National Bank, etc. acquired Charlotte's banks in the 1980s/90s instead of what really happened.
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jaxlongtimer

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Re: Amazon $5 bil co-HQ's in play
« Reply #307 on: February 16, 2019, 09:27:17 PM »
I imagine Jax's and Charlotte's fortunes would be different today if Barnett, Florida National, Atlantic National Bank, etc. acquired Charlotte's banks in the 1980s/90s instead of what really happened.

Sadly, much of Jax's historic businesses have reflected the conservatism of the City and mirror the City's relative growth which has seen these other Southern cities being discussed as passing us by.

Jax banks were unagressive in growing beyond Florida.  Winn Dixie let Walmart and Publix pass it by.  Gulf Life, Independent Life, the Jacksonville Shipyards, Stockton, Whatley Davin, Alliance Mortgage/Everbank, numerous Jax manufacturers and distributors, etc. have succumbed to acquirers from their respective industries that have been much more aggressive in expanding their businesses and changing with the times.  Most of Jax's biggest business drivers today are operations controlled by out of town entities (Mayo, Amazon, TIAA, Home Depot, Bank of America/Merrill Lynch, Wells Fargo, Johnson and Johnson, Univ. of Florida, Citi, Mercedes, Southeast Toyota, Anheuser-Busch, etc.) rather than local HQ'd companies.

True, so many industries have been rolled up that what Jax has experienced is not totally unique.  But, other than Fidelity National and its sister, companies, who themselves relocated here from California and are not Jax bred, and maybe our homegrown Florida Blue, there are few examples of our largest Jax companies being among the innovators of their industries.  Likewise, Jax civic leadership has not demonstrated being innovators in their roles and Jacksonville has fallen behind others as a result.

While I disagree with Mr. Kahn's incessant demands for City handouts to support his interests, he is correct in saying Jax is woefully slow, uncreative, unimaginative, lacking vision and failing to fully exploit its potential.  I don't really subscribe to his vision for the stadium as I believe it will compete, not support the heart of downtown, but at least he is providing a catalyst for discussion about what Jax could be if we played all our cards right (which, sadly, we continue to fail to do).  If we had more voices demanding creative and innovative visions and aggressive executions of same, everyone in Jax would be better off.

vicupstate

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Re: Amazon $5 bil co-HQ's in play
« Reply #308 on: February 17, 2019, 11:07:49 AM »
I imagine Jax's and Charlotte's fortunes would be different today if Barnett, Florida National, Atlantic National Bank, etc. acquired Charlotte's banks in the 1980s/90s instead of what really happened.

Sadly, much of Jax's historic businesses have reflected the conservatism of the City and mirror the City's relative growth which has seen these other Southern cities being discussed as passing us by.

Jax banks were unagressive in growing beyond Florida.  Winn Dixie let Walmart and Publix pass it by.  Gulf Life, Independent Life, the Jacksonville Shipyards, Stockton, Whatley Davin, Alliance Mortgage/Everbank, numerous Jax manufacturers and distributors, etc. have succumbed to acquirers from their respective industries that have been much more aggressive in expanding their businesses and changing with the times.  Most of Jax's biggest business drivers today are operations controlled by out of town entities (Mayo, Amazon, TIAA, Home Depot, Bank of America/Merrill Lynch, Wells Fargo, Johnson and Johnson, Univ. of Florida, Citi, Mercedes, Southeast Toyota, Anheuser-Busch, etc.) rather than local HQ'd companies.

True, so many industries have been rolled up that what Jax has experienced is not totally unique.  But, other than Fidelity National and its sister, companies, who themselves relocated here from California and are not Jax bred, and maybe our homegrown Florida Blue, there are few examples of our largest Jax companies being among the innovators of their industries.  Likewise, Jax civic leadership has not demonstrated being innovators in their roles and Jacksonville has fallen behind others as a result.

While I disagree with Mr. Kahn's incessant demands for City handouts to support his interests, he is correct in saying Jax is woefully slow, uncreative, unimaginative, lacking vision and failing to fully exploit its potential.  I don't really subscribe to his vision for the stadium as I believe it will compete, not support the heart of downtown, but at least he is providing a catalyst for discussion about what Jax could be if we played all our cards right (which, sadly, we continue to fail to do).  If we had more voices demanding creative and innovative visions and aggressive executions of same, everyone in Jax would be better off.

Very accurate and well stated.
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CityLife

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Re: Amazon $5 bil co-HQ's in play
« Reply #309 on: February 25, 2019, 01:55:26 PM »
Amazon backing out of NYC is a cautionary tale for other cities. Always important to distinguish between upfront cash incentives and tax abatements of future tax revenue. Unfortunately, a very vocal NYC congresswoman (and many others) is not able to distringuish between the two, and helped lead the anti-Amazon charge. Good to at least see the state budget director expose their ignorance.


https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/open-letter-new-york-state-budget-director-robert-mujica-regarding-amazon?curator=MediaREDEF

marcuscnelson

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Re: Amazon $5 bil co-HQ's in play
« Reply #310 on: February 25, 2019, 04:30:54 PM »
Quote
"The seventy percent of New Yorkers who supported Amazon and now vent their anger also bear responsibility and must learn that the silent majority should not be silent because they can lose to the vocalminority and self-interested politicians.

This is probably the most important part of that article. Elections have consequences, and if you feel a way about something, you can't sit around in silence and hope people know how you feel. You have to stand up and tell people, especially your representatives, what you want so they can either accommodate you better or reconsider their own stance.

vicupstate

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Re: Amazon $5 bil co-HQ's in play
« Reply #311 on: February 26, 2019, 10:41:57 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0oeeXjyHiw

Great response to Amazon. Well worth the 5.5 minutes.
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marcuscnelson

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Re: Amazon $5 bil co-HQ's in play
« Reply #312 on: February 26, 2019, 11:24:18 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0oeeXjyHiw

Great response to Amazon. Well worth the 5.5 minutes.


Definitely a great video. But from what I've seen, Amazon doesn't actually want to be in the business of renewal or ground-up development. Look at just the final 20 cities. Every single one of them is a major city or at least an important city for the region. A good many of them are already near large state schools that would likely be able to put out qualified new workers. More importantly, consider the lack of cohesion between existing residents and those who would be moving in. Do people in these heavily-conservative areas actually want a massive, likely liberal population moving into the area? The people of Queens did make a point in that housing prices would likely rise significantly following the move-in. You're talking a large number of diverse, well-paid people who will be looking for high-end entertainment options, or maybe things like legal weed and whatnot. The heartland has to be willing to provide this, and its people have to be open to these different ideas. So Amazon would both need an interest in this way of business, and the area would need a genuine interest in the people and changes Amazon would bring.

vicupstate

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Re: Amazon $5 bil co-HQ's in play
« Reply #313 on: February 26, 2019, 11:44:11 AM »
^^ You make a lot of good points. I think a good compromise would be someplace in the Midwest that was strong once but needs new economic engines. Detroit, Cleveland, St. Louis, for example.       
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