Author Topic: Amazon $5 bil co-HQ's in play  (Read 23324 times)

FlaBoy

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Re: Amazon $5 bil co-HQ's in play
« Reply #60 on: September 20, 2017, 05:48:57 PM »
Although it would have higher chances than a metro 1/4 its size like Jax landing the HQ, I doubt Amazon ends up in Detroit. However, it won't be because of its brutal winters.  Unless Gilbert and his friends offer an insane incentives package on behalf of the city, I doubt they'll be able to effectively compete head-to-head with several of the larger Sunbelt and East Coast regions. It's cool to see them trying.  The core of that city isn't as half bad as the negative national press it tends to get.

I do. Could you imagine getting placed in Detroit rather than Seattle? Brutal. Taking incentives out of the picture, going to Atlanta, Texas, North Carolina or Florida is much more desirable with similar sized metros that aren't shrinking like Tampa, Orlando, or Miami.
Many could make the same argument you're making against Detroit, against Jax. Instead of brutal winters you get brutal summers. Chicago has the same winters as Detroit. However, I can certainly see a situation where many would select Chicago over Seattle.

For sure, but which Top 50 metros are the slowest growing?

1. Cleveland: -1.04% growth
2. Pittsburgh: -.59% growth
3. Hartford: - 46% growth
4. Buffalo: -.24% growth
5. Detroit: .03% growth
6. Chicago: .55% growth
7. St. Louis: .69% growth
8. Milwaukee: 1.07% growth

Fastest Growing?

1. Austin 19.82% Growth
2. Raleigh: 15.25% Growth
3. Houston: 14.39% Growth
4. Orlando: 14.38% Growth
5. San Antonio: 13.40% Growth
6. Dallas: 12.56% Growth
7. Nashville 11%
8. Charlotte 11%
9. Phoenix 11%
10. Las Vegas 10.47%

Jacksonville comes in #13 I believe at 9.86%. One way or another, the whole air conditioning thing changed the game and cities like Chicago and Detroit, although large metros, are barely holding on to population while places like Dallas, Houston, Austin, and Orlando are booming. I think there might be a correlation with the cold weather. Of course, there are other factors, but it is a big one.

thelakelander

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Re: Amazon $5 bil co-HQ's in play
« Reply #61 on: September 20, 2017, 07:11:13 PM »
I'm not sure Sunbelt vs Rustbelt growth percentages right now have much to do with Amazon or weather. I know you cut your list off at 50 but if weather is a big correlation then why are places like Seattle (+10.44%), Boise (+12.14%), Fargo (+14.6%), Des Moines (+11.43%), Denver (+12.17%), Salt Lake City (+9.04%) growing at decent clips? Then there's booming Canadian metros like Calgary (+14.63%) and Edmonton (+13.93%). On the other hand, there's also a few Sunbelt metros like Memphis (+1.36%), Birmingham (+1.72%) that appear to be stagnant. Then some of slower growing metros were so dense, built-out and overcrowded at one point, they'll never end up on a fastest growing list, despite continuing to be vibrant places.
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Fallen Buckeye

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Re: Amazon $5 bil co-HQ's in play
« Reply #62 on: September 20, 2017, 07:16:51 PM »

Jacksonville comes in #13 I believe at 9.86%. One way or another, the whole air conditioning thing changed the game and cities like Chicago and Detroit, although large metros, are barely holding on to population while places like Dallas, Houston, Austin, and Orlando are booming. I think there might be a correlation with the cold weather. Of course, there are other factors, but it is a big one.

As a northern transplant working in tech myself, I have to say that weather was not probably even in the top ten of considerations for me when relocating. Availability of jobs, quality of life, and cost of living were way more important.  Don't get me wrong, the northern winters suck, but you learn to deal with it.

People were leaving the rust belt because it is harder to find jobs there which is solved if Amazon comes to town. Of the northern cities, I would have to think Boston is a contender because of the highly educated workforce there. In Detroit, I would think education would weaken its chances. One, who wants to put their kids in those schools? And, two, besides that school up North (boo), what other well respected schools are in that area?

thelakelander

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Re: Amazon $5 bil co-HQ's in play
« Reply #63 on: September 21, 2017, 05:54:16 AM »
Orlando submitted a proposal too:

http://www.wftv.com/news/local/could-amazon-call-orlando-home-city-on-list-for-next-global-headquarters/612210661

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/brinkmann-on-business/os-bz-amazon-hq2-bid-workforce-20170921-story.html

https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2017/09/15/orlando-to-bid-for-amazon-headquarters.html

Quote
Orlando Economic Partnership, representing the Orlando Metropolitan Statistical Area, was invited by Amazon to submit a proposal for the headquarters. "The Partnership will aggressively pursue this project and is already in the process of selecting the best sites that meet, and even exceed, Amazon’s requirements," said Tim Giuliani, president and CEO of the Orlando Economic Partnership, in a statement. "We have a great opportunity to showcase Orlando’s strong talent pipeline, top-ranked infrastructure, variety of real estate options and commitment to exceptional education, sustainability and inclusiveness."

The city of Orlando also is working with the Orlando Economic Partnership to submit a proposal; and Florida Enterprise, the state's economic agency is pursuing the deal for all of Florida. "As the most strategic location on the eastern seaboard for global commerce and with a strong workforce and several locations meeting Amazon’s needs, Florida is an ideal location for HQ2.," said Nathan Edwards, spokesman for the economic agency.
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Steve

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Re: Amazon $5 bil co-HQ's in play
« Reply #64 on: September 21, 2017, 07:47:30 AM »
Although it would have higher chances than a metro 1/4 its size like Jax landing the HQ, I doubt Amazon ends up in Detroit. However, it won't be because of its brutal winters.  Unless Gilbert and his friends offer an insane incentives package on behalf of the city, I doubt they'll be able to effectively compete head-to-head with several of the larger Sunbelt and East Coast regions. It's cool to see them trying.  The core of that city isn't as half bad as the negative national press it tends to get.

I do. Could you imagine getting placed in Detroit rather than Seattle? Brutal. Taking incentives out of the picture, going to Atlanta, Texas, North Carolina or Florida is much more desirable with similar sized metros that aren't shrinking like Tampa, Orlando, or Miami.
Many could make the same argument you're making against Detroit, against Jax. Instead of brutal winters you get brutal summers. Chicago has the same winters as Detroit. However, I can certainly see a situation where many would select Chicago over Seattle.

For sure, but which Top 50 metros are the slowest growing?

1. Cleveland: -1.04% growth
2. Pittsburgh: -.59% growth
3. Hartford: - 46% growth
4. Buffalo: -.24% growth
5. Detroit: .03% growth
6. Chicago: .55% growth
7. St. Louis: .69% growth
8. Milwaukee: 1.07% growth

Fastest Growing?

1. Austin 19.82% Growth
2. Raleigh: 15.25% Growth
3. Houston: 14.39% Growth
4. Orlando: 14.38% Growth
5. San Antonio: 13.40% Growth
6. Dallas: 12.56% Growth
7. Nashville 11%
8. Charlotte 11%
9. Phoenix 11%
10. Las Vegas 10.47%

Jacksonville comes in #13 I believe at 9.86%. One way or another, the whole air conditioning thing changed the game and cities like Chicago and Detroit, although large metros, are barely holding on to population while places like Dallas, Houston, Austin, and Orlando are booming. I think there might be a correlation with the cold weather. Of course, there are other factors, but it is a big one.


As a northern transplant as well, I can tell you weather had zero to do with it. Personally, I'd take Long Island's winters (note, nothing like the mid-west winters but still cold) over Florida's summers.

We relocated because my dad's company, which was based on Long Island, was purchased and the HQ was moved off the island, mainly because of high taxes.

Of your list of growing places, all have a much lower than average cost of doing business, and 5 of your top 6 are states without personal income tax.

ProjectMaximus

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Re: Amazon $5 bil co-HQ's in play
« Reply #65 on: September 21, 2017, 11:17:57 AM »
This article includes a map of the >100 cities that have expressed interest. And this article is over a week old.

http://www.seattletimes.com/business/amazon/100-plus-contenders-imagine-hosting-amazons-hq2/

Perhaps I am mistaken but from my recollection of the RFP Amazon specifically asked metropolitan areas over 1M to submit one proposal...there's a lot of individual cities within MSAs acting independently so far it seems.

Orlando submitted is going to submit a proposal too:

Fixed it for you. Since what you said contradicts what I said  ;D

As a northern transplant as well, I can tell you weather had zero to do with it. Personally, I'd take Long Island's winters (note, nothing like the mid-west winters but still cold) over Florida's summers.

Yeah I actually preferred Chicago winter to Jax summer tbh. But my wife does not.

FlaBoy

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Re: Amazon $5 bil co-HQ's in play
« Reply #66 on: September 21, 2017, 12:12:08 PM »
Will Jax/St Johns County make a bid at least to say they did?

TimmyB

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Re: Amazon $5 bil co-HQ's in play
« Reply #67 on: September 21, 2017, 07:54:54 PM »
I find the discussion about weather amusing, to say the least.  If you don't believe weather is a factor, ask yourself this: how many people do you know that retired and moved "up north", and by that, I don't mean Tennessee?  I mean, Michigan, Minnesota, N Dakota, etc.  Now, how many people do you know/have you seen who have moved "down south" when they retire?  There is a reason for that.

Is it hot in Jacksonville during the summer?  Sure, but you can still do things outside.  You can get out early in the morning or late in the day/evening.  Up north, you are stuck inside for months, staring out your window.  You aren't going to ride your bike, you aren't going to play golf, you aren't going to have a walk on the beach.  It sucks with a capital SUCK.

I'm not even going to predict where Amazon might end up, but I can tell you as an employee, if someone offered me Jacksonville vs another COMPARABLY-SIZED city up there, it wouldn't even be close!  (Comparing Jax to Chicago is about as apples and oranges as you can get, so let's not go down that path.)

thelakelander

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Re: Amazon $5 bil co-HQ's in play
« Reply #68 on: September 21, 2017, 08:38:00 PM »
I don't know many people from my side of the tracks that retire and move anywhere. However, not sure what retiring or weather have to do with Amazon getting a city/state to fork over billions in incentives for their operations.  If either hell or the north pole can meet their minimum requirements, while also providing the most incentives, they'll be there.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2017, 09:27:53 PM by thelakelander »
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Adam White

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Re: Amazon $5 bil co-HQ's in play
« Reply #69 on: September 22, 2017, 06:34:05 AM »
I find the discussion about weather amusing, to say the least.  If you don't believe weather is a factor, ask yourself this: how many people do you know that retired and moved "up north", and by that, I don't mean Tennessee?  I mean, Michigan, Minnesota, N Dakota, etc.  Now, how many people do you know/have you seen who have moved "down south" when they retire?  There is a reason for that.

Is it hot in Jacksonville during the summer?  Sure, but you can still do things outside.  You can get out early in the morning or late in the day/evening.  Up north, you are stuck inside for months, staring out your window.  You aren't going to ride your bike, you aren't going to play golf, you aren't going to have a walk on the beach.  It sucks with a capital SUCK.

I'm not even going to predict where Amazon might end up, but I can tell you as an employee, if someone offered me Jacksonville vs another COMPARABLY-SIZED city up there, it wouldn't even be close!  (Comparing Jax to Chicago is about as apples and oranges as you can get, so let's not go down that path.)

^Spoken like a guy who's lived up north all (or most of) his life and hasn't spent an appreciable amount of time in the South East! I left Jax to get away from the heat. Not the only reason, of course, but a motivating factor. It's just too hot for too many months. And I like seasons.
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thelakelander

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Re: Amazon $5 bil co-HQ's in play
« Reply #70 on: September 22, 2017, 07:36:12 AM »
South Florida has tossed its name in the mix:

Quote
South Florida hopes to persuade Seattle-based Amazon that it is the perfect location for the online shipping giant’s second North American headquarters, an eight-million-square-foot, 50,000-employee campus.

Economic development leaders say landing the $5 billion development would be transformational for South Florida, creating an “international technology hub” with all the ancillary businesses that would follow the company to the region. They have decided a team effort is needed to beat out the heavy competition from across the country and Canada, so the Beacon Council Miami-Dade, the Greater Fort Lauderdale Alliance in Broward and the Business Development Board of Palm Beach County are putting together a joint proposal, the Sun Sentinel reported.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/article174711856.html
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CityLife

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Re: Amazon $5 bil co-HQ's in play
« Reply #71 on: September 22, 2017, 09:29:29 AM »
Jax has little to no shot here, but in my opinion COJ (or Khan/Rummell) should try and put something together to pitch The Shipyards and The District as a joint spot for HQ, with a pedestrian bridge across the SJR. Its basically free advertising for the City and to those potential developments to a lot of the most influential people in the business and real estate sectors nationwide.

I'm working with a large national development group on a project and one of the executives told me the other day that there is a lot of behind the scenes movement to try and figure out what cities Amazon already has their eye on and what opportunities are there. If Jax could even make a shortlist, it would generate a ton of exposure to Downtown. That said, a bad proposal could do more damage than not submitting at all. So hopefully COJ goes all in if they do submit.

One interesting dynamic is the potential competition between South Florida, Tampa, Orlando, and possibly Jax. I'd like to see the State come out and say that it will provide X amount of incentives to anyone of the state's cities that wins. That way the state is not at a competitive disadvantage against a one city state like Georgia. Unfortunately, the recent hurricanes will put a damper on the state's efforts. I think it will be Boston, Atlanta, or Austin, but South Florida has an outside chance. Bezos partially grew up in Miami, opens up opportunities to grow the Latin market, highly desirable place to live, diverse and educated workforce, and similar access to the nation's elites that you would get in NYC or Boston.  I would guess that Ft. Lauderdale would be the spot if in South Florida.   

TimmyB

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Re: Amazon $5 bil co-HQ's in play
« Reply #72 on: September 22, 2017, 09:31:19 AM »
I find the discussion about weather amusing, to say the least.  If you don't believe weather is a factor, ask yourself this: how many people do you know that retired and moved "up north", and by that, I don't mean Tennessee?  I mean, Michigan, Minnesota, N Dakota, etc.  Now, how many people do you know/have you seen who have moved "down south" when they retire?  There is a reason for that.

Is it hot in Jacksonville during the summer?  Sure, but you can still do things outside.  You can get out early in the morning or late in the day/evening.  Up north, you are stuck inside for months, staring out your window.  You aren't going to ride your bike, you aren't going to play golf, you aren't going to have a walk on the beach.  It sucks with a capital SUCK.

I'm not even going to predict where Amazon might end up, but I can tell you as an employee, if someone offered me Jacksonville vs another COMPARABLY-SIZED city up there, it wouldn't even be close!  (Comparing Jax to Chicago is about as apples and oranges as you can get, so let's not go down that path.)

^Spoken like a guy who's lived up north all (or most of) his life and hasn't spent an appreciable amount of time in the South East! I left Jax to get away from the heat. Not the only reason, of course, but a motivating factor. It's just too hot for too many months. And I like seasons.

No doubt, Adam.  But, as I said, even in the heat, I can still train outside.  I get up early or go out late.  Up there, I'm stuck on a treadmill or stationary bike for half of the year.  Did I mention that it SUCKS?   ;D ;D  ;D

Fallen Buckeye

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Re: Amazon $5 bil co-HQ's in play
« Reply #73 on: September 22, 2017, 09:41:59 AM »
I find the discussion about weather amusing, to say the least.  If you don't believe weather is a factor, ask yourself this: how many people do you know that retired and moved "up north", and by that, I don't mean Tennessee?  I mean, Michigan, Minnesota, N Dakota, etc.  Now, how many people do you know/have you seen who have moved "down south" when they retire?  There is a reason for that.

Is it hot in Jacksonville during the summer?  Sure, but you can still do things outside.  You can get out early in the morning or late in the day/evening.  Up north, you are stuck inside for months, staring out your window.  You aren't going to ride your bike, you aren't going to play golf, you aren't going to have a walk on the beach.  It sucks with a capital SUCK.

I'm not even going to predict where Amazon might end up, but I can tell you as an employee, if someone offered me Jacksonville vs another COMPARABLY-SIZED city up there, it wouldn't even be close!  (Comparing Jax to Chicago is about as apples and oranges as you can get, so let's not go down that path.)

For every one that moves south when they retire, there are another several people who stay up north.

If weather was such a crucial factor, then you would not see growth in Fargo, North Dakota, for instance, yet people are moving there because it has jobs. Weather is not a non-factor, but to me it is more of a bonus. My kids beg me to move back North because they miss the snow, but I have to admit it is nice not having to scrape your windows every morning for half the year. :)

Adam White

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Re: Amazon $5 bil co-HQ's in play
« Reply #74 on: September 22, 2017, 10:05:12 AM »
I find the discussion about weather amusing, to say the least.  If you don't believe weather is a factor, ask yourself this: how many people do you know that retired and moved "up north", and by that, I don't mean Tennessee?  I mean, Michigan, Minnesota, N Dakota, etc.  Now, how many people do you know/have you seen who have moved "down south" when they retire?  There is a reason for that.

Is it hot in Jacksonville during the summer?  Sure, but you can still do things outside.  You can get out early in the morning or late in the day/evening.  Up north, you are stuck inside for months, staring out your window.  You aren't going to ride your bike, you aren't going to play golf, you aren't going to have a walk on the beach.  It sucks with a capital SUCK.

I'm not even going to predict where Amazon might end up, but I can tell you as an employee, if someone offered me Jacksonville vs another COMPARABLY-SIZED city up there, it wouldn't even be close!  (Comparing Jax to Chicago is about as apples and oranges as you can get, so let's not go down that path.)

^Spoken like a guy who's lived up north all (or most of) his life and hasn't spent an appreciable amount of time in the South East! I left Jax to get away from the heat. Not the only reason, of course, but a motivating factor. It's just too hot for too many months. And I like seasons.

No doubt, Adam.  But, as I said, even in the heat, I can still train outside.  I get up early or go out late.  Up there, I'm stuck on a treadmill or stationary bike for half of the year.  Did I mention that it SUCKS?   ;D ;D  ;D

The grass is always greener!

I prefer a milder summer - I think one thing that really sucks about the heat in Jax is how it doesn't really cool off when the sun goes down. And the humidity is pretty bad, too. I imagine the winters in Michigan are pretty harsh, though!
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