Author Topic: Too many watering holes?  (Read 4722 times)

mtraininjax

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Too many watering holes?
« on: July 07, 2017, 04:48:01 PM »
http://www.news4jax.com/news/florida/duval-county/jacksonville-beach/tale-of-2-cities-mayor-says-jax-beach-changes-when-sun-goes-down

Quote
Latham told News4Jax that area of Jacksonville Beach has become a tale of two cities -- one for families during the day and watering hole at night.

"Our city transitions at 10 or 11 o'clock at night from a family-oriented downtown with restaurants and entertainment for people into a drinking facility," Latham said. "Let's be honest with each other -- that creates problems."

Adding restaurant and bar after bar in Riverside and Avondale could lead to this issue in the urban neighborhoods. The next city council race for District 14 should be an interesting one, as this will surely be one of the topics.
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FlaBoy

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Re: Too many watering holes?
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2017, 05:04:25 PM »
Oh no. Not places young people want to be. If Jax Beach was smart, they would just embrace that they are one of the great places for beach nightlife on the whole East Coast. I guess South Tampa, Downtown Orlando, Downtown St. Pete, Ybor City, Miami Beach, Buckhead Atlanta, Midtown Atlanta, Midtown and Downtown Gainesville, Downtown Houston, Rice Village Houston, Beale Street Memphis, Downtown Nashville, Eastside Nashville, Las Olas in Ft. Lauderdale...all change during the night. The only place that doesn't change at night is Bourbon Street in New Orleans...that is just always a party  ;D

Adam White

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Re: Too many watering holes?
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2017, 05:52:43 PM »
I worry more about drunk drivers than anything else. If the market can sustain bars, etc, then good. But without public transportation, it's kind of scary. I suppose Uber/Lyft etc might be making a difference there (that wasn't an option when I lived in Jax).
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marcuscnelson

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Re: Too many watering holes?
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2017, 01:37:39 AM »
Oh no. Not places young people want to be. If Jax Beach was smart, they would just embrace that they are one of the great places for beach nightlife on the whole East Coast. I guess South Tampa, Downtown Orlando, Downtown St. Pete, Ybor City, Miami Beach, Buckhead Atlanta, Midtown Atlanta, Midtown and Downtown Gainesville, Downtown Houston, Rice Village Houston, Beale Street Memphis, Downtown Nashville, Eastside Nashville, Las Olas in Ft. Lauderdale...all change during the night. The only place that doesn't change at night is Bourbon Street in New Orleans...that is just always a party  ;D

Are you saying that Jacksonville could become… interesting?

Can't have that, maybe we should try shooting ourselves in the foot again by driving out nightlife and see if that fixes things.

benfranklinbof

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Re: Too many watering holes?
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2017, 07:55:04 AM »
I'm fine with everything closing at 10:00 pm. Too many crazy people out there. I want Jax to remain a family friendly city.  J/k
Murray Hill Billy

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Re: Too many watering holes?
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2017, 11:49:42 AM »
I guess I don't see a problem, but I also didn't buy a house in close proximity to a commercial strip and expect the business owners to cater to my own personal bedtime either.

The one thing that JB has the RA doesn't is a couple of clubs.  Sure, there's Eclipse & Loft, but there's not a concentration of them.  Bars are bars, and I'd rather have them succeeding in close proximity to one another than just making it by spread out all over the place. 

Adam's right, though, the lack of a public transportation option (I also don't know how many people are choosing to use Lyft / Uber) is an issue.  And I think another issue is a lack of hotel space in/near the 'party' areas (read:  within reasonable walking distance)  And maybe that will change with more build-out in Brooklyn or more commercial conversion east & north of 5-points.  Because I don't believe there are enough people out drinking to support a hotel, and definitely not enough going on in the week to keep them even remotely full.

I believe that Jax Beach has their PCT that runs until 2am and they have an abundance of hotel rooms, so they have that going for them.
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thelakelander

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Re: Too many watering holes?
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2017, 01:08:23 PM »
I don't see a problem in Jax Beach or Riverside. There's no real big city concentration of anything club or bar related in Jacksonville or the beaches.  Just a few small nodes. This whole topic sounds like one in Lakeland back around 1999. When that downtown started to revitalize, two or three bars opened up on the same block and some city leaders wanted to cap the number of places serving alcoholic beverages, in fear of not being family friendly.  Luckily, the cap never happened and now that downtown is filled with businesses that cater to multiple demographics......and it's still family friendly....
« Last Edit: July 08, 2017, 01:21:08 PM by thelakelander »
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KenFSU

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Re: Too many watering holes?
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2017, 02:39:11 PM »
The Landing kicked out it's most successful tenet 20 years ago because it wanted to be more "family friendly" and less of a "drinking facility."

https://www.questia.com/read/1G1-57490391/landing-to-fat-tuesday-party-s-over

How'd that one turn out?
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KenFSU

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Re: Too many watering holes?
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2017, 02:57:02 PM »
I worry more about drunk drivers than anything else. If the market can sustain bars, etc, then good. But without public transportation, it's kind of scary. I suppose Uber/Lyft etc might be making a difference there (that wasn't an option when I lived in Jax).

Studies are currently mixed on Uber/Lyft's impact on drunken driving accidents and fatalities (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/07/business/uber-drunk-driving-prevention.html). To me, public transportation just seems like a less convenient, more complex, Uber/Lyft. Personally not convinced it would make much of a difference.

The underlying hypothesis for those who don't believe that Uber is making a broad difference is that people who choose to drive under the influence aren't particularly rational decision-makers to begin with, so we shouldn't broadly assume that they would be any more likely to take an Uber than they would be to make a substitute rational choice, such as hail a cab, or take public transit, or call a friend, or find a hotel, or arrange a DD, etc.

Uber's another option, but if someone was irrational enough to drive under the influence prior to the rise of ridesharing, its existence isn't inherently enough to make these people any more likely to behave in a responsible way.

It's a REALLY hard thing to get accurate data on, but for me personally, it's definitely been a game changer in terms of going out and not having to worry about driving.
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ralpho37

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Re: Too many watering holes?
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2017, 02:57:53 PM »
I spent 2 evenings in South Florida this past weekend, one in Hollywood and one in South Beach Miami. Jacksonville has a LONG way to go before it has a viable night life scene. Granted, South Florida has one of the premier nightlife scenes in the country, and comparing us to them is apples to oranges, but it sure would be nice if Jacksonville didn't roll up the carpets at sunset.

Night life doesn't necessarily equal un-family-friendly either. I saw an abundance of families with young kids out and about in both Hollywood and South Beach up until around 11pm. There was live music, ice cream shops, restaurants, and yes, also bars and clubs open until late. There were also many policemen interacting with people and the areas were kept clean and well-lit. My wife and I felt very safe being out late. I can't say Jax Beach has the same vibe after dark. Having a safe, enjoyable nightlife scene that families can participate in is certainly achievable, but as it is now, it doesn't even feel like Jax as a whole is trying.

remc86007

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Re: Too many watering holes?
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2017, 04:12:05 PM »
^That's because Jax as a whole is not trying. Most of the residents did not choose to stay here or relocate here because of a nightlife scene. I, too, hope Jax beach continues to develop a nightlife scene, and as the average age of the residents out there seems to trend younger, I think it will happen.

As a person who likes going out for drinks, but not clubs, I am loving the craft brewery scene here.

FlaBoy

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Re: Too many watering holes?
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2017, 07:53:20 PM »
King Street's issue is parking and homes nearby. I would love to see 5 Points kind of take on the role of nightlife spot in Riverside with more offerings and then eventually see Downtown take on the role of the club scene. Downtown/5 Points/Jax Beach would be three great nodes of nightlife.

Josh

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Re: Too many watering holes?
« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2017, 08:11:58 PM »
So these places should be "family-friendly" after 10PM? What?

Adam White

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Re: Too many watering holes?
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2017, 03:02:28 AM »
So these places should be "family-friendly" after 10PM? What?

Vampires have families, too. But you have to invite them in, so they don't make very good customers.
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mtraininjax

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Re: Too many watering holes?
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2017, 05:25:20 AM »
Quote
I worry more about drunk drivers than anything else. If the market can sustain bars, etc, then good. But without public transportation, it's kind of scary. I suppose Uber/Lyft etc might be making a difference there (that wasn't an option when I lived in Jax).

Did you know, thanks to the JSO crime map, there were only 3 DUI arrests over the last 4 weeks of data in Duval County? Either the data is wrong or the JSO is not focusing on it, one or the other. I find this to be extremely low in a city with as many bars and booze halls as Jax. I do believe that Uber and Lyft are having an effect on DUI. It is far easier to pay $15 for a ride than pay $10000 for a DUI. Thankfully more and more people see the value of this. But only 3 is really low.

More alcohol leads to more assaults and ultimately more demands on an already taxed police department. I would not compare Jax to Miami, there is way too much money in Miami, or Orlando or Atlanta, these are all destination cities. Instead, I would simply look at what effect alcohol has on the community. You are already seeing more issues along King Street with robberies of patrons coming out late at night. So you have to add more off duty cops or ask for more resources, costs of doing business go up and people may not come back due to the threat of safety. Once the idea of safety is introduced, just ask downtown and the Landing about what happens, people don't come back.

The Jax Beach mayor now has a public safety issue. Just as Sleiman has one at the Landing.

http://resources.prev.org/documents/AlcoholViolenceGruenewald.pdf

« Last Edit: July 09, 2017, 05:35:16 AM by mtraininjax »
And, that $115 will save Jacksonville from financial ruin. - Mayor John Peyton

“This is a game-changer. This is what I mean when I say taking Jacksonville to the next level.”
-Mayor Alvin Brown on new video boards at Everbank Field