Author Topic: Bold City Taproom (Roselle) Closed  (Read 4225 times)

Apache

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Re: Bold City Taproom (Roselle) Closed
« Reply #30 on: July 08, 2017, 01:04:46 AM »
Quote
So, apparently the brewery were at fault. And it was a fire safety issue. Damn government!

I know, right?!?  I mean, yoga presents a serious fire hazard... much more so than brewing or serving beer (both uses they are allowed to do based on their zoning). Thank the Good Lord in Heaven that the government saved those limber hippies from the evil, reckless brewery owners trying to take advantage of their admittedly hazy judgement while in a Zen-like state of mind, from sure fire death.


^^That's sarcasm, in case you didn't pick it up.

I picked it up.

Apparently, having groups of people assemble in a building requires fire alarms and lighted exits. It's about the number of people, not the activity. But I'm sure you knew that.

Because two dozen people 'assembling' to do yoga and then purchasing beer, is somehow more of a fire hazard then 30 people 'incidentally' traveling to said location to purchase beer... or 9 people 'primarily' making beer in said location? Interesting interpretation of fire safety.


BTW, you're talking to someone that once had to pay the fire marshall $2,000 to have a couple of 'trained professionals' stand around for 6 hours to make sure no one caught fire in a building that had the correct number of fire exits and lighted fire signs per code. If they weren't 'government officials concerned about safety',,, that would be called extortion in the real world.


Additionally, this rash of incidents is not just confined to Bold City Brewery and CORK. Over the past month, the neighborhoods of North Riverside, Durkeeville, Brooklyn and Mixontown have been hit with these same 'sudden' fire safety violations. In fact, several buildings have come down as a result. The TU, Daily Record, etc haven't picked up on this.. but its been happening. That kind of 'coincidence' tends to raise an eyebrow to the discerning type of individual.

don't get worked up, the new gadfly has been trying hard to fill the void that has been left by the old gadfly

Adam White

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Re: Bold City Taproom (Roselle) Closed
« Reply #31 on: July 08, 2017, 02:57:41 AM »
Quote
So, apparently the brewery were at fault. And it was a fire safety issue. Damn government!

I know, right?!?  I mean, yoga presents a serious fire hazard... much more so than brewing or serving beer (both uses they are allowed to do based on their zoning). Thank the Good Lord in Heaven that the government saved those limber hippies from the evil, reckless brewery owners trying to take advantage of their admittedly hazy judgement while in a Zen-like state of mind, from sure fire death.


^^That's sarcasm, in case you didn't pick it up.

I picked it up.

Apparently, having groups of people assemble in a building requires fire alarms and lighted exits. It's about the number of people, not the activity. But I'm sure you knew that.

Because two dozen people 'assembling' to do yoga and then purchasing beer, is somehow more of a fire hazard then 30 people 'incidentally' traveling to said location to purchase beer... or 9 people 'primarily' making beer in said location? Interesting interpretation of fire safety.


BTW, you're talking to someone that once had to pay the fire marshall $2,000 to have a couple of 'trained professionals' stand around for 6 hours to make sure no one caught fire in a building that had the correct number of fire exits and lighted fire signs per code. If they weren't 'government officials concerned about safety',,, that would be called extortion in the real world.


Additionally, this rash of incidents is not just confined to Bold City Brewery and CORK. Over the past month, the neighborhoods of North Riverside, Durkeeville, Brooklyn and Mixontown have been hit with these same 'sudden' fire safety violations. In fact, several buildings have come down as a result. The TU, Daily Record, etc haven't picked up on this.. but its been happening. That kind of 'coincidence' tends to raise an eyebrow to the discerning type of individual.

As I understand the article, the brewery was only permitted to brew beer. So there would be a handful of people working there and there would be no need for the more robust fire safety measures (or the law didn't require them for that use). But since they have been operating a tap room (and having yoga classes), there are fire safety requirements that have not been met. I reckon those requirements were to protect the assembled public, not because the assembled public are a fire hazard.

It looks like the City have allowed a compromise, where they can continue to operate the unpermitted tap room, provided they limit the number of patrons. And no yoga. I can't see how this bothers anyone - clearly the brewery was in the wrong (insofar as they were using the property in ways it was not permitted for and without appropriate fire safety measures in place for those uses) and the City is working with it to resolve the issue (whilst allowing it to keep its tap room doors open). Sounds like a win-win to me.

Of course, there is the secondary issue of why this took 9 years to discover. That appears to be the City's main failing in this case and it should be investigated to find out why/how it happened.

As far as the "coincidence" you mention - well, are there violations or not? If there are, then I don't see the issue - except maybe the issue of historic lax enforcement (as above). If there aren't issues, then I'd totally agree. Of course, the original post from the brewery indicated that this was the result of the annual fire inspection. Nothing "sudden" or unexpected - just the result was unexpected.

But maybe your assumptions are colored by your past experience? I can't vouch for how well the fire marshall does his job. And I certainly can't comment on your particular situation. But when I see an uptick in enforcement, my mind doesn't necessarily jump to "conspiracy theory" right away.

I work for a regulator in the accountancy field and we regularly perform practice assurance visits to the firms licensed members. We have done a few things recently in order to do this more effectively (prioritised it in our departmental budget, threw more resources at it, refined the paramaters and approach for selecting members for review, etc). This inevitably led to people complaining when they received a letter advising them they'd been selected for a review - "I've been a member for 15 years and have never heard of this, etc, etc, etc".  Now, we could be accused of not fulfilling our statutory obligations as anti money laundering regulators, but that doesn't mean we should turn a blind eye when we conduct a visit and a member isn't undertaking appropriate client due diligence.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2017, 06:42:15 AM by Adam White »
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Adam White

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Re: Bold City Taproom (Roselle) Closed
« Reply #32 on: July 08, 2017, 03:24:46 AM »
don't get worked up, the new gadfly has been trying hard to fill the void that has been left by the old gadfly

"Dumb."
« Last Edit: July 08, 2017, 06:42:55 AM by Adam White »
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FSBA

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Re: Bold City Taproom (Roselle) Closed
« Reply #33 on: July 08, 2017, 06:51:55 AM »
yeah id agree- an astute sociological and economic observer as much as anything

but hard to say he's not a critic of capitalism, particularly the unadulterated version favored by libertarians

Yes, definitely a critic of capitalism. And a guy who (apparently) made a bit of money on the stock market!

The idea of privatizing the FDA is ludicrous.



I think you have that confused with the government approved drinking water in Flint, Michigan.
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Adam White

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Re: Bold City Taproom (Roselle) Closed
« Reply #34 on: July 08, 2017, 06:56:46 AM »
yeah id agree- an astute sociological and economic observer as much as anything

but hard to say he's not a critic of capitalism, particularly the unadulterated version favored by libertarians

Yes, definitely a critic of capitalism. And a guy who (apparently) made a bit of money on the stock market!

The idea of privatizing the FDA is ludicrous.



I think you have that confused with the government approved drinking water in Flint, Michigan.

It's drinking water that results from putting profits/costs ahead of people.
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strider

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Re: Bold City Taproom (Roselle) Closed
« Reply #35 on: July 08, 2017, 09:11:06 AM »
First, I have always found the Fire Marshal's office very reasonable to deal with.  That said, their first reaction to anything is to insist on the most stringent and severe requirements found in the code.  Then you negotiate based on the actual codes and the true needs of the project. It often goes easily but sometimes is a long and involved process as you yourself learn what the codes really are.  And to some extent, so do the folks in the Fire Marshals office. The important thing is that the current Fire Marshal is more than willing to work with you and also learn as we all sometimes need to.

This issue with Bold City does not indicate to me that Bold City was doing anything purposefully wrong.  Just as it does not make sense that the Fire Marshals office suddenly realized that Bold City was serving beer there.  I would hazard a guess that somewhere an incident happened that has triggered a refresher in various code requirements and is causing a knee jerk reaction to occupancy issues with the inspectors directed to zero in on those issues.  As we can see, after the initial closing, a way was found to get the tap room open again until both parties can figure out how to meet their respective responsibilities in a responsible way.

Another thing to realize is that Zoning often makes small and unintentional errors when things are assigned.  Something unusual often gets categorized one way even when two things are happening.  At first, it is fine because everyone knows.  But later on as new folks get included in the mix, questions get raised.  So, a COU that everyone knew included the tap room gets labeled as a brewery only and so years later gets called incorrect. It happens far more often that you would think.  Unfortunately, the fix for issues like this can be involved and like fire safety issues, you need to know as much about the codes as the folks you are dealing with.

Permitting issues are often difficult as well and are so for the very same reasons.  Existing Building code requirements get confused with New building requirements,  the code used to permit it 9 years ago gets confused with the current codes,  and so on and so on.  This seems also to apply to this issue as well.
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mtraininjax

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Re: Bold City Taproom (Roselle) Closed
« Reply #36 on: July 09, 2017, 05:40:58 AM »
The Fire Marshall was simply doing his job. If a fire breaks out anywhere and there are not properly marked exits with unlocked exit doors or extinguishers in place, or a map of the facility in case fire men/women need to enter, then its his butt on the line. Sadly, most people think that the JFRD singled out BCB, they did not. They check EVERY facility yearly. We get inspected at our place of business, they want to see the extinguishers, the map of the space, make sure the water lines are good. Its all about public safety.

Kudos to JFRD for doing their job.
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