Author Topic: Suburban Infill: Atlantic Crossings  (Read 12274 times)

Abhishek

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Re: Suburban Infill: Atlantic Crossings
« Reply #30 on: August 05, 2008, 11:01:58 PM »
@ Jason
I rode over to Atlantic Crossing this evening. I do get what you mean by a start. I even spoke to two women who lived there. They mentioned seeing people walking to work from that community. Of course that is only a small percentage of people that can do that.

The city roadway planning, if we can call it 'planning', is to blame for the most part for the failure of a walkable community. Once we start moving away from strip-mall happy construction, we can think about a closer knit neighbourhood where walking to a store or a public space is an ease and a pleasure. But it is so expensive to build up than build out, and we have all this land available. That makes it hard to break the habit of spread out construction. The more spread out the construction is, the harder it is to walk around and the more car-dependent we are.

Some of the cities that rank high in walkability are parched for space and they have been for quite a while. Atlantic Crossing being in the Edge City inherits the demerits of car-dependent neighbourhoods.
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Abhishek

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Re: Suburban Infill: Atlantic Crossings
« Reply #31 on: August 05, 2008, 11:12:43 PM »
There are also a number of apartment homes (Portofino Apartments,Colony at Deerwood, Wimberly, Fifty-Four Magnolia) around Atlantic Crossing. Some are closer to the Town Center Mall than the others. They obviously share the same benefit of walkability that Atlantic Crossing claims. So, the only thing that makes Atlantic Crossing different is the parking-in-the-back style of layout.
I personally could live without it.
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Jason

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Re: Suburban Infill: Atlantic Crossings
« Reply #32 on: August 06, 2008, 09:08:27 AM »
@ Jason
I rode over to Atlantic Crossing this evening. I do get what you mean by a start. I even spoke to two women who lived there. They mentioned seeing people walking to work from that community. Of course that is only a small percentage of people that can do that.

The city roadway planning, if we can call it 'planning', is to blame for the most part for the failure of a walkable community. Once we start moving away from strip-mall happy construction, we can think about a closer knit neighbourhood where walking to a store or a public space is an ease and a pleasure. But it is so expensive to build up than build out, and we have all this land available. That makes it hard to break the habit of spread out construction. The more spread out the construction is, the harder it is to walk around and the more car-dependent we are.

Some of the cities that rank high in walkability are parched for space and they have been for quite a while. Atlantic Crossing being in the Edge City inherits the demerits of car-dependent neighbourhoods.


No doubt.  The whole "southside" region of Duval county is poorly planned.  Space is also a concern.  Personally, I would love to see Miami's urban development boundary recreated here.  There is still quite a bit of undeveloped land especially in the northernmost, western, and southeastern ends of the county.  If boundaries were created to halt development in these areas, the leftover available land would be forced to support a higher mix of uses.  Couple that with some revisions to the county's development guidelines and we could be on our way.  Plus, we would save thousands of acres of forest and wetlands for future generations to enjoy.

thelakelander

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Re: Suburban Infill: Atlantic Crossings
« Reply #33 on: August 06, 2008, 09:21:44 AM »
I spent a few hours in Uptown Charlotte this morning.  The First Ward (I think this is the correct name of the area) has gridded streets and is lined with several individual developments like Atlantic Crossing.  Layout alone makes this area pretty walkable and gives it a neighborhood atmosphere, despite the housing stock being pretty cheap looking.  Although all the individual projects don't have retail, there are a couple of spots that do.  Its a great example, not only for the Tinseltown area, but also spots like LaVilla and Brooklyn.  I'm sure I'll do a photo tour of some sort when I get back to town.  On to Detroit, Grand Rapids and Pittsburgh.
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Jason

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Re: Suburban Infill: Atlantic Crossings
« Reply #34 on: August 06, 2008, 09:32:49 AM »
.... while your in Pittsburgh make sure to rub in their hard fought losses to the Jags.  ;)

Captain Zissou

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Re: Suburban Infill: Atlantic Crossings
« Reply #35 on: August 06, 2008, 09:52:24 AM »
I agree with Jason.  In fact, I was thinking about that same thing a couple days ago.  There is no incentive to add density when you can just build our.  Developers will build strip malls all the way to Daytona if allowed.  I think boundaries for at least a period of time would be a smart move.  Development should be restricted until density reaches a certain level, and then maybe a portion to the north can be opened to development, or elsewhere on the edge of the city.  This would help build a market for mass transit, possibly free up capital to improve infrastructure closer to the core (Riverside Ave...), and create a better environment for our fair citizens.

Abhishek

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Re: Suburban Infill: Atlantic Crossings
« Reply #36 on: August 06, 2008, 01:45:42 PM »
No doubt.  The whole "southside" region of Duval county is poorly planned.  Space is also a concern.  Personally, I would love to see Miami's urban development boundary recreated here.  There is still quite a bit of undeveloped land especially in the northernmost, western, and southeastern ends of the county.  If boundaries were created to halt development in these areas, the leftover available land would be forced to support a higher mix of uses.  Couple that with some revisions to the county's development guidelines and we could be on our way.  Plus, we would save thousands of acres of forest and wetlands for future generations to enjoy.
Development boundary seems like the logical constraint to create higher mix of businesses in smaller areas. Saving the planet in the process is definitely welcome. A city as big as Jacksonville should not be allowed to spread without some limits. Jacksonville has a unique layout though, where every edge city is fairly self sufficient. I live in the southside area and do not have to go to downtown ever. This has positive and negative points. If I drove a car, I'd love to not have to drive much to run errands and parking is plenty because the edge cities are very car friendly but very bicycle/pedestrian unfriendly. I spoke to a few friends that grew up in New Jersey/New York area. The spread out edge cities of Jacksonville attracted them. Of course they are chained to their cars.

The solution is to define what 'quality of life' is for Jacksonville's citizens. Is it more quality to have wide lanes, spread out businesses with humongous parking lots attached to them or is it more quality to bring people out of cars, open up the city to the public and increase human interaction? It is a folly to suggest solutions without an aim of quality in mind. All the solutions listed in the comments look very viable but do all of them have the same goal of quality? Does the city of Jacksonville have that goal of quality?
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gatorback

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Re: Suburban Infill: Atlantic Crossings
« Reply #37 on: August 06, 2008, 01:47:41 PM »
Cap Z I don't think restricting development would help anybody out.  After all, this is america, we love to build.  By the way, this is how it's done.  Some maggot Sr. Banker gets a request accross his desk for a loan.  After the banker sits on it for probably months, he may look at it.  If the request is out of line, he's going to pass it up.  If the request is in line, he might sign off on the project would would let the investors get on with the project.  They've put up their money, I seriously doubt they want to go with something that is not know to work.  This is what I've been told.
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Captain Zissou

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Re: Suburban Infill: Atlantic Crossings
« Reply #38 on: August 06, 2008, 02:20:12 PM »
Gator, if that second part of your comment was directed towards me, you've gone way over my head.
I agree that Americans love to build, I hope to build someday too.  I just don't think nail salons and gas stations are the optimum use for our thousands of developed acres in south and west Jacksonville.  I'd rather see the sprawl contained and higher density than outward expansion. Thats all.

gatorback

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Re: Suburban Infill: Atlantic Crossings
« Reply #39 on: August 06, 2008, 02:33:52 PM »
I'm all for higher density in town.  In fact, I'm for any density in town. I think out there, that which is developed so far is perfect.  In fact, I'd like to see maybe 6 floors or residences instead of what looks like 4.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2008, 02:35:35 PM by gatorback »
'As a sinner I am truly conscious of having often offended my Creator and I beg him to forgive me, but as a Queen and Sovereign, I am aware of no fault or offence for which I have to render account to anyone here below.'   Mary, queen of Scots to her jailer, Sir Amyas Paulet; October 1586