Author Topic: American 'Christianity' Has Failed  (Read 52141 times)

finehoe

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American 'Christianity' Has Failed
« on: January 26, 2017, 10:07:17 PM »
While the gospels instruct followers of Christ to help the poor, oppressed, maligned, mistreated, sick, and those most in need of help, Christians in America have largely supported measures that have rejected refugees, refused aid to immigrants, cut social services to the poor, diminished help for the sick, fueled xenophobia, reinforced misogyny, ignored racism, stoked hatred, reinforced corruption, and largely increased inequality, prejudice, and fear.

The election of President Donald Trump has proven that numerous Christians are more worried about power, influence, and control than the gospel messages of humility, generosity, ministering to others, and love.

Of course there are exceptions, but it should be sobering for Christians to realize that that many who claim to follow the Prince of Peace, the Healer, the Light of the World, supported policies that are bringing darkness and pain to so many people.

https://sojo.net/articles/american-christianity-has-failed

TimmyB

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Re: American 'Christianity' Has Failed
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2017, 10:05:53 AM »
I was raised religious; went to church and sunday school, heavily involved in youth group, young life, etc.  It made me the liberal I am today because, through volunteer work, I saw how great I had it, and how few were doing what Jesus actually taught: held those poorest among us.  Unfortunately, while I admire the teachings of Jesus, I can't deal with american "religion". It just an institution of power used to control people.  I am actually pretty disgusted by it.  Especially the types like Trump, who preach the bullshit known as the "prosperity gospel".  If there is a God, it is self-evident he would smite someone like Trump, who is arrogant, self-centered, throws people out of their homes to build golf courses, lies at will, and whose number one motivation for all decisions is greed, pure and simple.  Holy shit am I depressed now, just thinking about this horse shit.

Word for word, MmR, my life as well.  I now refer to these types as "christians", lower-case intentional, because they have nothing to do with the message or gospel of Jesus.  In the entire written word of his life, he apparently lost his cool only once.  That was with the people who were pretending to be "godly" but were really worshiping the god of wealth.  He was not real tolerant of their ways, to say the least. 

If Jesus were to appear in America today, these christians would vote him off the island by sundown, as he is FAR too liberal for them.

JaxJersey-licious

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Re: American 'Christianity' Has Failed
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2017, 10:52:29 AM »
I feel all of y'all because I have had similar issues with people I used to go to church with, or at least they had issues with me. But as disillusion as you or anyone believing in the true tenets of Jesus Christ's teachings and actions, I say keep being the thorn on their side.

I am Catholic but how I felt about gay marriage, the right to choose, opening relations to Cuba, among other things had put me at odds with many in my church groups who preferred I stick with congregants that see things my way or even leave the church altogether. But for many years I have come to the belief that the Catholic church NEEDS people like me practicing my faith than it does me not practicing it. If you have serious irreconcilable differences with the teachings of your church or your faith itself then I understand one's leaving but the old adage "I never left so-and-so church or faith, so-and-so church or faith left me" always struck me as horse shit placing all the blame solely on the religion - most breakups are never that simple or cut and dried as to what exactly was as fault, and that is particularly true with a breakup of faith.

And I don't want to come off as being this symbolic progressive beacon of light. The reason I never faced any outright ostracism in these circles despite my disagreements is not because of what I stand against or my core beliefs, it's because I've always been welcoming, listening, courteous, respectful, and kind as members of my groups have been that way to me. And as a result, even though I've since moved on but most of these people I've had disagreements with remain very dear friends of mine today.

There may very well be some "crisis" in faith, but the extent of it is proportional to the extent you are "involved" with it.

Jim

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Re: American 'Christianity' Has Failed
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2017, 12:24:05 PM »
Jesus taught us to not be an ass to each other.  Live by that and all is good.  You don't need a religion, a church, etc...just don't be an ass. 

tobot241

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Re: American 'Christianity' Has Failed
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2017, 12:34:02 PM »
I was raised religious; went to church and sunday school, heavily involved in youth group, young life, etc.  It made me the liberal I am today because, through volunteer work, I saw how great I had it, and how few were doing what Jesus actually taught: held those poorest among us.  Unfortunately, while I admire the teachings of Jesus, I can't deal with american "religion". It just an institution of power used to control people.  I am actually pretty disgusted by it.  Especially the types like Trump, who preach the bullshit known as the "prosperity gospel".  If there is a God, it is self-evident he would smite someone like Trump, who is arrogant, self-centered, throws people out of their homes to build golf courses, lies at will, and whose number one motivation for all decisions is greed, pure and simple.  Holy shit am I depressed now, just thinking about this horse shit.

Being "raised religious" creates it's own theological problems....Christianity IS NOT a religion. You were raised on church doctrine, not Christianity.

aldermanparklover

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Re: American 'Christianity' Has Failed
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2017, 12:36:22 PM »
I feel all of y'all because I have had similar issues with people I used to go to church with, or at least they had issues with me. But as disillusion as you or anyone believing in the true tenets of Jesus Christ's teachings and actions, I say keep being the thorn on their side.

I am Catholic but how I felt about gay marriage, the right to choose, opening relations to Cuba, among other things had put me at odds with many in my church groups who preferred I stick with congregants that see things my way or even leave the church altogether. But for many years I have come to the belief that the Catholic church NEEDS people like me practicing my faith than it does me not practicing it. If you have serious irreconcilable differences with the teachings of your church or your faith itself then I understand one's leaving but the old adage "I never left so-and-so church or faith, so-and-so church or faith left me" always struck me as horse shit placing all the blame solely on the religion - most breakups are never that simple or cut and dried as to what exactly was as fault, and that is particularly true with a breakup of faith.

And I don't want to come off as being this symbolic progressive beacon of light. The reason I never faced any outright ostracism in these circles despite my disagreements is not because of what I stand against or my core beliefs, it's because I've always been welcoming, listening, courteous, respectful, and kind as members of my groups have been that way to me. And as a result, even though I've since moved on but most of these people I've had disagreements with remain very dear friends of mine today.

There may very well be some "crisis" in faith, but the extent of it is proportional to the extent you are "involved" with it.

I'm Catholic too - almost 2,000 years Christianity has been around, in many different forms but each still fundamentally the same as the other in their core beliefs and practices. Beliefs and practices going all the way back to when Jesus physically walked among us and taught the absoluteness of God's love and word.

Who are you again?

FlaBoy

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Re: American 'Christianity' Has Failed
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2017, 12:56:58 PM »
“[a]Do not judge and criticize and condemn [others unfairly with an attitude of self-righteous superiority as though assuming the office of a judge], so that you will not be judged [unfairly]. 2 For just as you [hypocritically] judge others [when you are sinful and unrepentant], so will you be judged; and in accordance with your standard of measure [used to pass out judgment], judgment will be measured to you. 3 Why do you look at the [insignificant] speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice and acknowledge the [egregious] log that is in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me get the speck out of your eye,’ when there is a log in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite (play-actor, pretender), first get the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.

6 “Do not give that which is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before pigs, for they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.

7 “[c]Ask and keep on asking and it will be given to you; seek and keep on seeking and you will find; knock and keep on knocking and the door will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who keeps on asking receives, and he who keeps on seeking finds, and to him who keeps on knocking, it will be opened. 9 Or what man is there among you who, if his son asks for bread, will [instead] give him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, will [instead] give him a snake? 11 If you then, evil (sinful by nature) as you are, know how to give good and advantageous gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven [perfect as He is] give what is good and advantageous to those who keep on asking Him.

12 “So then, in everything treat others the same way you want them to treat you, for this is [the essence of] the Law and the [writings of the] Prophets.

13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad and easy to travel is the path that leads the way to destruction and eternal loss, and there are many who enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow and difficult to travel is the path that leads the way to [everlasting] life, and there are few who find it.

15 “Beware of the false prophets, [teachers] who come to you dressed as sheep [appearing gentle and innocent], but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them [that is, by their contrived doctrine and self-focus]. Do people pick grapes from thorn bushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the unhealthy tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore, by their fruit you will recognize them [as false prophets].

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me on that day [when I judge them], ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, and driven out demons in Your name, and done many miracles in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them publicly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me [you are banished from My presence], you who act wickedly [disregarding My commands].’

24 “So everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, will be like a wise man [a far-sighted, practical, and sensible man] who built his house on the rock. 25 And the rain fell, and the floods and torrents came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. 26 And everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not do them, will be like a foolish (stupid) man who built his house on the sand. 27 And the rain fell, and the floods and torrents came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell—and great and complete was its fall.”

- Jesus

Adam White

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Re: American 'Christianity' Has Failed
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2017, 01:38:35 PM »
Jesus was made up* and if you live your life by that rubbish, it says a lot about your gullibility.


*A guy named Jesus might've lived, but no way was he the son of god.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2017, 01:47:33 PM by Adam White »
“If you're going to play it out of tune, then play it out of tune properly.”

TimmyB

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Re: American 'Christianity' Has Failed
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2017, 03:14:02 PM »
Jesus was made up* and if you live your life by that rubbish, it says a lot about your gullibility.


*A guy named Jesus might've lived, but no way was he the son of god.

I have gone from being sure his divinity was definitely true to having no idea, one way or the other.  What I do know is this: what a great role model he is to live by.  Love your neighbor.  Feed the poor.  Shelter the needy.  Don't judge.  If we all simply did that, how much better would Earth be?  Sadly, "greed is good" took over and it ain't going away.

Adam White

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Re: American 'Christianity' Has Failed
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2017, 03:33:11 PM »
Jesus was made up* and if you live your life by that rubbish, it says a lot about your gullibility.


*A guy named Jesus might've lived, but no way was he the son of god.

I have gone from being sure his divinity was definitely true to having no idea, one way or the other.  What I do know is this: what a great role model he is to live by.  Love your neighbor.  Feed the poor.  Shelter the needy.  Don't judge.  If we all simply did that, how much better would Earth be?  Sadly, "greed is good" took over and it ain't going away.

I don't disagree. I just hate it when people act as if the words of Jesus have some authority. I have no objection to people having religious beliefs - I just think they should keep them to themselves. Unfortunately, they are all too often used as a rod to beat others with. And the people who seem to object the most to the (usually perceived) actions of Muslims are the people doing basically the same thing.

“If you're going to play it out of tune, then play it out of tune properly.”

Adam White

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Re: American 'Christianity' Has Failed
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2017, 03:41:28 PM »
I don't disagree. I just hate it when people act as if the words of Jesus have some authority. I have no objection to people having religious beliefs - I just think they should keep them to themselves. Unfortunately, they are all too often used as a rod to beat others with. And the people who seem to object the most to the (usually perceived) actions of Muslims are the people doing basically the same thing.

meh. How is this different from any philosophy or idea?

Welcome to the human condition.

Well, religion has killed a lot more people than, say, opinions on which Beatles album is the best. Or Chevy vs Ford.

I don't entirely disagree when it comes to some philosphies - there are all sorts of offenders - and I would offer a similar opinion on threads about those. APL mentioned Stalin in one if his comments on a different thread and I'm always up for bashing him. Can't let Jesus and Hitler get all the attention.
“If you're going to play it out of tune, then play it out of tune properly.”

Adam White

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Re: American 'Christianity' Has Failed
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2017, 03:47:39 PM »
I don't disagree. I just hate it when people act as if the words of Jesus have some authority. I have no objection to people having religious beliefs - I just think they should keep them to themselves. Unfortunately, they are all too often used as a rod to beat others with. And the people who seem to object the most to the (usually perceived) actions of Muslims are the people doing basically the same thing.

meh. How is this different from any philosophy or idea?

Welcome to the human condition.

Well, religion has killed a lot more people than, say, opinions on which Beatles album is the best. Or Chevy vs Ford.

I don't entirely disagree when it comes to some philosphies - there are all sorts of offenders - and I would offer a similar opinion on threads about those. APL mentioned Stalin in one if his comments on a different thread and I'm always up for bashing him. Can't let Jesus and Hitler get all the attention.

A lot of communists (and socialists) would say that economics has been the hidden force behind war, no matter what the pretext. Even if the official reason was 'religion'.

Yes, that is often the case. But it could also be indirect - religion is part of the superstructure of society, which mirrors (or is informed by) the relations of production.
“If you're going to play it out of tune, then play it out of tune properly.”

FlaBoy

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Re: American 'Christianity' Has Failed
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2017, 03:50:41 PM »
Jesus was made up* and if you live your life by that rubbish, it says a lot about your gullibility.


*A guy named Jesus might've lived, but no way was he the son of god.

I have gone from being sure his divinity was definitely true to having no idea, one way or the other.  What I do know is this: what a great role model he is to live by.  Love your neighbor.  Feed the poor.  Shelter the needy.  Don't judge.  If we all simply did that, how much better would Earth be?  Sadly, "greed is good" took over and it ain't going away.

I don't disagree. I just hate it when people act as if the words of Jesus have some authority. I have no objection to people having religious beliefs - I just think they should keep them to themselves. Unfortunately, they are all too often used as a rod to beat others with. And the people who seem to object the most to the (usually perceived) actions of Muslims are the people doing basically the same thing.

LOL. This is a thread about the Church and Christianity. If there were ever a time to bring Jesus into a conversation, this one makes sense. You might want to turn your hatred down a little bit. Hate is never a good look.

Adam White

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Re: American 'Christianity' Has Failed
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2017, 03:58:05 PM »
Jesus was made up* and if you live your life by that rubbish, it says a lot about your gullibility.


*A guy named Jesus might've lived, but no way was he the son of god.

I have gone from being sure his divinity was definitely true to having no idea, one way or the other.  What I do know is this: what a great role model he is to live by.  Love your neighbor.  Feed the poor.  Shelter the needy.  Don't judge.  If we all simply did that, how much better would Earth be?  Sadly, "greed is good" took over and it ain't going away.

I don't disagree. I just hate it when people act as if the words of Jesus have some authority. I have no objection to people having religious beliefs - I just think they should keep them to themselves. Unfortunately, they are all too often used as a rod to beat others with. And the people who seem to object the most to the (usually perceived) actions of Muslims are the people doing basically the same thing.

LOL. This is a thread about the Church and Christianity. If there were ever a time to bring Jesus into a conversation, this one makes sense. You might want to turn your hatred down a little bit. Hate is never a good look.

I don't hate anyone. But I do think religion is stupid and people who waste their lives on some made up bullshit and quote scripture are idiots.
“If you're going to play it out of tune, then play it out of tune properly.”

finehoe

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Re: American 'Christianity' Has Failed
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2017, 04:04:06 PM »
A lot of communists (and socialists) would say that economics has been the hidden force behind war, no matter what the pretext. Even if the official reason was 'religion'.

No doubt true, but "having God on our side" probably made the combatants all the more intransigent.