Author Topic: Jacksonville Armada in trouble?  (Read 39984 times)

TimmyB

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Re: Jacksonville Armada in trouble?
« Reply #75 on: February 09, 2017, 09:17:10 PM »
^While you're right on about minor leagues and teams growing in minors before MLS, he is right about dreaming bigger. Playing at UNF has to be temporary, and like we have said many times, they need a home of their own in a better location.

I agree with both of you on this.  Jax needs to set its sights higher, but you can make yourself look ridiculous, as well.  Grand Rapids, the 2nd biggest city in Michigan had minor league teams, but they were poorly supported and folded quite often.  Why?  Well, the GR CBA team played in a HS gymnasium, complete with wooden foldout bleachers.  The IHL team played in a barn of an arena that was built in the pre-WWII era.  The baseball was semi-pro, at best, played in a nice little park that had real seating for maybe 500.  People always claimed GR would not support their teams.  Then, someone with money came in and built a great baseball stadium and a Class "A" team came to town.  Attendance has never been an issue.  Someone else built a beautiful 12,000 seat arena in downtown and what do you know, a well-supported hockey team!  If you have the right people who actually give a darn about their town AND have the financial resources to do it right, it can make all the difference.

Coolyfett

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Re: Jacksonville Armada in trouble?
« Reply #76 on: March 23, 2017, 03:36:24 PM »
It appears the Armada's league, the NASL, is about to collapse. Some teams are jumping ship to the rival USL, which is currently Division III behind MLS and the NASL, and others are about to fold.

The Armada, after having an average attendance of nearly 8k in their first year, dropped down to 3,499 this year. The news has been reporting for weeks that they're laying off staff, and they fired many of their front office people well before that. Sports Illustrated reported that "The Jacksonville Armada have financial concerns, according to sources," while Fourfourtwo.com says that "The Jacksonville Armada, also reportedly cutting back its permanent staff, currently planning to downgrade to a high school facility for the 2017 season, have stayed committed to the NASL..."

Doesn't sound too good. Leaving downtown, let alone playing at a high school, is usually a nail in the coffin for Jacksonville sports teams.
SMH Jacksonville should have never bothered. Orlando City games are one the weekends. Thats the best move for Jacksonville soccer fans. MLS should go no where else in Florida but Orlando. That is just where it works.
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Tacachale

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Re: Jacksonville Armada in trouble?
« Reply #77 on: March 23, 2017, 03:39:46 PM »
It appears the Armada's league, the NASL, is about to collapse. Some teams are jumping ship to the rival USL, which is currently Division III behind MLS and the NASL, and others are about to fold.

The Armada, after having an average attendance of nearly 8k in their first year, dropped down to 3,499 this year. The news has been reporting for weeks that they're laying off staff, and they fired many of their front office people well before that. Sports Illustrated reported that "The Jacksonville Armada have financial concerns, according to sources," while Fourfourtwo.com says that "The Jacksonville Armada, also reportedly cutting back its permanent staff, currently planning to downgrade to a high school facility for the 2017 season, have stayed committed to the NASL..."

Doesn't sound too good. Leaving downtown, let alone playing at a high school, is usually a nail in the coffin for Jacksonville sports teams.
SMH Jacksonville should have never bothered. Orlando City games are one the weekends. Thats the best move for Jacksonville soccer fans. MLS should go no where else in Florida but Orlando. That is just where it works.

Um, the Armada aren't in MLS. They're NASL, which is division II. They are coming back at least for the next year, and at any rate they've proven that DII soccer will work in Jax.
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Coolyfett

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Re: Jacksonville Armada in trouble?
« Reply #78 on: March 23, 2017, 05:13:47 PM »
Yeah, but neither is Atlanta.  I don't want to have to travel for my entertainment.  I want to live in a city that's big enough to have those things.  You know: sports, concerts, theater, etc.  I (we) thought Jax was big enough for all of that, and getting bigger, but these past couple of months have made me wonder.
Jacksonville is just not that type of place. Sadly folks just have to come to terms with the fact only the NFL and milb will work there. Soccer was never big in Atlanta. When I moved to Atlanta in 08 none of fans cared about it. They supported the national teams when they came to town, just like Jacksonville does, but it took a few things to happen in Atlanta for soccer to actually work. Social media was a major factor because for a long time main stream media wasnt checking for the MLS. It just howl like they treat the Jaguars. Many of the MLS fanbases want to be seen as hardcore to the Europe and South American leagues and their fans. So a few of the teams and their supporters  try to imitate or emulate the those leagues. Social media is what spread that Supporter culture around the US. In Atlanta we had a lot of crap going on between the Braves, Hawks, Thrashers and Falcons. Falcons wanted a new stadium but the city didnt want to pay for it. Braves wanted a new stadium and did some underhanded deal with Cobb County to the north of the metro. The Thrashers were sold and moved to Canada. The Hawks sold to a new owner the new owner immediately started whining about Philip arena and needing a replacement arena for Atlanta.  The Falcons owner Arthur Blank used all this chaos to his advantage. He basically got the ball rolling on replacing the GA Dome and made sure that the replacement could also be used as a soccer stadium full time. It was a genius move. Orlando started making moves to get into the MLS and Arthur Blank did the same. What made it the perfect storm was the Braves underhanded deals with Cobb County that turned a lot of Atlanta people against them. That set up room for fans to be crazy excited for Atlanta United and fans are absolutely bonkers for them too. Jacksonville just doesnt have that. Its still pretty much a tackle football city. Playing soccer in someone else's field is bad. No one wants to watch. Soccer has a certain atmosphere that only a SSS can pull off. Empty seats is a NO NO.
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Adam White

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Re: Jacksonville Armada in trouble?
« Reply #79 on: March 23, 2017, 05:38:24 PM »
Many of the MLS fanbases want to be seen as hardcore to the Europe and South American leagues and their fans. So a few of the teams and their supporters  try to imitate or emulate the those leagues.
And it all rings so hollow. It's such a blatant affectation and it's really embarrassing. It would be great to see Americans develop their own soccer culture instead of trying to ape what they think are the traditions, behaviours, language, etc of foreign soccer fans.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2017, 05:48:10 PM by Adam White »
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TimmyB

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Re: Jacksonville Armada in trouble?
« Reply #80 on: March 23, 2017, 07:46:51 PM »
Yeah, but neither is Atlanta.  I don't want to have to travel for my entertainment.  I want to live in a city that's big enough to have those things.  You know: sports, concerts, theater, etc.  I (we) thought Jax was big enough for all of that, and getting bigger, but these past couple of months have made me wonder.
In Atlanta we had a lot of crap going on between the Braves, Hawks, Thrashers and Falcons. Falcons wanted a new stadium but the city didnt want to pay for it. Braves wanted a new stadium and did some underhanded deal with Cobb County to the north of the metro.

I'm pretty sure there would be more than a few in ATL that would differ with your take on this.  The City of Atlanta owned Turner Field and the Braves wanted BIG improvements to the stadium, to the city-owned parking, and to  address the horrendous traffic in the area.  Mayor Reed flat out turned them down, and one of the stated reasons was they already had $200 MILLION committed to MB Stadium.  At that point, the Braves did the only other option that was viable and moved out of the city to a place where the local government was willing to work with them, not to mention, where the greatest percentage of their fans lived.  There was nothing "underhanded" about it at all.  The Braves gave the city every chance to work with them and Mayor Reed told them to spend their own money, because they were getting nothing more from Atlanta.  So, that's what they did.  And now, they own the stadium, they own the parking, and it's highly doubtful that the stands will be empty because of angry Atlantans.  They might be empty because the team on the field sucks donkey, and has for three years, now, but that's another story, eh?

BridgeTroll

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Re: Jacksonville Armada in trouble?
« Reply #81 on: March 23, 2017, 08:15:49 PM »
Many of the MLS fanbases want to be seen as hardcore to the Europe and South American leagues and their fans. So a few of the teams and their supporters  try to imitate or emulate the those leagues.
And it all rings so hollow. It's such a blatant affectation and it's really embarrassing. It would be great to see Americans develop their own soccer culture instead of trying to ape what they think are the traditions, behaviours, language, etc of foreign soccer fans.

Sooo cheerleaders and a halftime show?   ;D
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TimmyB

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Re: Jacksonville Armada in trouble?
« Reply #82 on: March 23, 2017, 09:28:03 PM »
Many of the MLS fanbases want to be seen as hardcore to the Europe and South American leagues and their fans. So a few of the teams and their supporters  try to imitate or emulate the those leagues.
And it all rings so hollow. It's such a blatant affectation and it's really embarrassing. It would be great to see Americans develop their own soccer culture instead of trying to ape what they think are the traditions, behaviours, language, etc of foreign soccer fans.

Sooo cheerleaders and a halftime show?   ;D

Sorry, Crystal Palace has already gone down that road.  <<barfs in mouth>>



Adam White

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Re: Jacksonville Armada in trouble?
« Reply #83 on: March 24, 2017, 03:19:13 AM »
Timmy B beat me to it.

I think foam fingers and tailgating are two great American traditions that would carry over well. Definitely tailgating. And we do the wave (or, as the British call it, the 'Mexican wave'). That does occasionally creep into soccer matches over here - usually international ones.
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Tacachale

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Re: Jacksonville Armada in trouble?
« Reply #84 on: March 27, 2017, 11:57:54 AM »
Yeah, but neither is Atlanta.  I don't want to have to travel for my entertainment.  I want to live in a city that's big enough to have those things.  You know: sports, concerts, theater, etc.  I (we) thought Jax was big enough for all of that, and getting bigger, but these past couple of months have made me wonder.
Jacksonville is just not that type of place. Sadly folks just have to come to terms with the fact only the NFL and milb will work there. Soccer was never big in Atlanta. When I moved to Atlanta in 08 none of fans cared about it. They supported the national teams when they came to town, just like Jacksonville does, but it took a few things to happen in Atlanta for soccer to actually work. Social media was a major factor because for a long time main stream media wasnt checking for the MLS. It just howl like they treat the Jaguars. Many of the MLS fanbases want to be seen as hardcore to the Europe and South American leagues and their fans. So a few of the teams and their supporters  try to imitate or emulate the those leagues. Social media is what spread that Supporter culture around the US. In Atlanta we had a lot of crap going on between the Braves, Hawks, Thrashers and Falcons. Falcons wanted a new stadium but the city didnt want to pay for it. Braves wanted a new stadium and did some underhanded deal with Cobb County to the north of the metro. The Thrashers were sold and moved to Canada. The Hawks sold to a new owner the new owner immediately started whining about Philip arena and needing a replacement arena for Atlanta.  The Falcons owner Arthur Blank used all this chaos to his advantage. He basically got the ball rolling on replacing the GA Dome and made sure that the replacement could also be used as a soccer stadium full time. It was a genius move. Orlando started making moves to get into the MLS and Arthur Blank did the same. What made it the perfect storm was the Braves underhanded deals with Cobb County that turned a lot of Atlanta people against them. That set up room for fans to be crazy excited for Atlanta United and fans are absolutely bonkers for them too. Jacksonville just doesnt have that. Its still pretty much a tackle football city. Playing soccer in someone else's field is bad. No one wants to watch. Soccer has a certain atmosphere that only a SSS can pull off. Empty seats is a NO NO.

Much of that is incorrect. Atlanta MLS was in the works since the Falcons stadium has been proposed; it has really nothing to do with the Braves or Thrashers. Soccer is a growing niche in the US, and as the biggest metro in the Southeast, Atlanta is a good market for MLS regardless of all that other stuff.

The stadium thing has affected the Armada, but not nearly in the way you're saying. The Baseball Grounds is too expensive and there's not many other places to play. I expect they'll do just fine at UNF if they keep their marketing and gameday experience up. And if they don't, someone else will come in after them.

Oh, and the impact of an SSS is overstated. It's just one of several factors that can help. The most successful team in MLS is Seattle, and they play in a football stadium that holds more than any SSS in North America. Orlando has had major success at their (crappy) football stadium that also holds more than the SSS they're building at great cost a mile away. Empty seats don't hurt either of them. The new Atlanta team you're talking about will also play in a football stadium (that will officially double as a soccer stadium to skirt the MLS's SSS rules) and will probably do just fine.
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

FlaBoy

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Re: Jacksonville Armada in trouble?
« Reply #85 on: March 27, 2017, 01:25:15 PM »
Yeah, but neither is Atlanta.  I don't want to have to travel for my entertainment.  I want to live in a city that's big enough to have those things.  You know: sports, concerts, theater, etc.  I (we) thought Jax was big enough for all of that, and getting bigger, but these past couple of months have made me wonder.
Jacksonville is just not that type of place. Sadly folks just have to come to terms with the fact only the NFL and milb will work there. Soccer was never big in Atlanta. When I moved to Atlanta in 08 none of fans cared about it. They supported the national teams when they came to town, just like Jacksonville does, but it took a few things to happen in Atlanta for soccer to actually work. Social media was a major factor because for a long time main stream media wasnt checking for the MLS. It just howl like they treat the Jaguars. Many of the MLS fanbases want to be seen as hardcore to the Europe and South American leagues and their fans. So a few of the teams and their supporters  try to imitate or emulate the those leagues. Social media is what spread that Supporter culture around the US. In Atlanta we had a lot of crap going on between the Braves, Hawks, Thrashers and Falcons. Falcons wanted a new stadium but the city didnt want to pay for it. Braves wanted a new stadium and did some underhanded deal with Cobb County to the north of the metro. The Thrashers were sold and moved to Canada. The Hawks sold to a new owner the new owner immediately started whining about Philip arena and needing a replacement arena for Atlanta.  The Falcons owner Arthur Blank used all this chaos to his advantage. He basically got the ball rolling on replacing the GA Dome and made sure that the replacement could also be used as a soccer stadium full time. It was a genius move. Orlando started making moves to get into the MLS and Arthur Blank did the same. What made it the perfect storm was the Braves underhanded deals with Cobb County that turned a lot of Atlanta people against them. That set up room for fans to be crazy excited for Atlanta United and fans are absolutely bonkers for them too. Jacksonville just doesnt have that. Its still pretty much a tackle football city. Playing soccer in someone else's field is bad. No one wants to watch. Soccer has a certain atmosphere that only a SSS can pull off. Empty seats is a NO NO.

Much of that is incorrect. Atlanta MLS was in the works since the Falcons stadium has been proposed; it has really nothing to do with the Braves or Thrashers. Soccer is a growing niche in the US, and as the biggest metro in the Southeast, Atlanta is a good market for MLS regardless of all that other stuff.

The stadium thing has affected the Armada, but not nearly in the way you're saying. The Baseball Grounds is too expensive and there's not many other places to play. I expect they'll do just fine at UNF if they keep their marketing and gameday experience up. And if they don't, someone else will come in after them.

Oh, and the impact of an SSS is overstated. It's just one of several factors that can help. The most successful team in MLS is Seattle, and they play in a football stadium that holds more than any SSS in North America. Orlando has had major success at their (crappy) football stadium that also holds more than the SSS they're building at great cost a mile away. Empty seats don't hurt either of them. The new Atlanta team you're talking about will also play in a football stadium (that will officially double as a soccer stadium to skirt the MLS's SSS rules) and will probably do just fine.

Horray for the newest technology...panel tarps... ;D



UNF may actually be a better location in some ways. We will see.

Adam White

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Re: Jacksonville Armada in trouble?
« Reply #86 on: March 27, 2017, 03:26:46 PM »
Many of the MLS fanbases want to be seen as hardcore to the Europe and South American leagues and their fans. So a few of the teams and their supporters  try to imitate or emulate the those leagues.
And it all rings so hollow. It's such a blatant affectation and it's really embarrassing. It would be great to see Americans develop their own soccer culture instead of trying to ape what they think are the traditions, behaviours, language, etc of foreign soccer fans.

JESUS THIS X 100000000-- I AM LOOKING AT YOU HIPSTER DOUCHE WHO WENT TO HIS FIRST GAME, BOUGHT A SCARF AND A FLAG (BEFORE THE GAME EVE STARTED) AND STARTED CALLING YOURSELF A "SUPPORTER" INSTEAD OF A FAN AND STARTED ACTING LIKE YOU GREW UP IN BLOODY FUCKING BRITAIN.

Hey - that scarf cost me $20. I'm gonna wear it with pride - who cares if it's 98 degrees outside?
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fsquid

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Re: Jacksonville Armada in trouble?
« Reply #87 on: March 27, 2017, 04:51:48 PM »
It will be intersting to see what the crowds will be.  UNF is certainly closer for the kids in its youth academy.

Rynjny

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Re: Jacksonville Armada in trouble?
« Reply #88 on: July 15, 2017, 09:51:48 PM »
Ryan

Snaketoz

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Re: Jacksonville Armada in trouble?
« Reply #89 on: July 16, 2017, 03:41:54 PM »
Ryan Palmer of RP Funding