Author Topic: Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field  (Read 47587 times)

FlaBoy

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Jacksonville has a very poor track record when attempting addition by subtraction, but just like the Coastline demo, I really do like the idea of removing those ramps. That said, Curry's proposal sure is strange.

An elevated path/park, overlooking the prison, the backside of Maxwell House, a bunch of surface lots, an adjacent two-way ramp, and 30 acres of contaminated brown fields?

It's an interesting idea, but to do it properly, you'd need to spend a lot of money. It's also something that would make such more sense if the area was already developed. As is, I worry that the remnants of an abandoned highway ramp just further blights an already blighted area and makes eventual development of the Shipyards even more cost-prohibitive.

It makes no sense at all considering a significant part of the elevated path/park parallels Hogan Creek.  Why be above the creek when a grade-level path/park along the banks of the creek would be much nicer and more user-friendly.

I think people have laid out several reasons in this thread already:

1) Environmental hazards under the concrete are prohibitive to development
2) Parts of the Overpass would be difficult or possible cost prohibitive to demolish as a result of the buildings below
3) The areas along the Creek are flood prone

One thing I am positive of is that they didn't just decide to keep that stretch for the hell of it. They have to have some good reasons probably revolving around costs.

I think the best use for one of those raised expressways is some sort of public transit use such as Skyway extension as Lake mentioned.

Tacachale

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Jacksonville has a very poor track record when attempting addition by subtraction, but just like the Coastline demo, I really do like the idea of removing those ramps. That said, Curry's proposal sure is strange.

An elevated path/park, overlooking the prison, the backside of Maxwell House, a bunch of surface lots, an adjacent two-way ramp, and 30 acres of contaminated brown fields?

It's an interesting idea, but to do it properly, you'd need to spend a lot of money. It's also something that would make such more sense if the area was already developed. As is, I worry that the remnants of an abandoned highway ramp just further blights an already blighted area and makes eventual development of the Shipyards even more cost-prohibitive.

It makes no sense at all considering a significant part of the elevated path/park parallels Hogan Creek.  Why be above the creek when a grade-level path/park along the banks of the creek would be much nicer and more user-friendly.

I think people have laid out several reasons in this thread already:

1) Environmental hazards under the concrete are prohibitive to development
2) Parts of the Overpass would be difficult or possible cost prohibitive to demolish as a result of the buildings below
3) The areas along the Creek are flood prone

One thing I am positive of is that they didn't just decide to keep that stretch for the hell of it. They have to have some good reasons probably revolving around costs.

I think the best use for one of those raised expressways is some sort of public transit use such as Skyway extension as Lake mentioned.

Yes, that's what I heard today: the cost and difficulty of demolishing that stretch would have been such that it would make whole project untenable right now. The proposed isn't ideal but it's a comparatively affordable way to keep it while moving ahead with redeveloping the eastern part. If we want in the future, we can demolish and redevelop it when the money's available.
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thelakelander

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It wouldn't be the first example of an incremental approach taken on freeway removal. In Rochester, their downtown was completely surrounded by a loop freeway. Currently, they're in the process of a $21 million project to convert about half of it into a ground level boulevard.

http://www.cityofrochester.gov/InnerLoopEast/



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acme54321

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If they've gotta leave the damn ramps at least dump them out on E Adams or something.  It's not like anyone will use them anymore.  You think 25% capacity is bad now, wait until it's a ramp to nowhere.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2016, 06:56:36 PM by acme54321 »

vicupstate

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It will only cost more to demolish the West end ramps later, and the benefit won't be realized until they are gone.  Bite the bullet and do the whole thing now.

Couldn't buildings be built on the capped contaminated land?
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Tacachale

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It will only cost more to demolish the West end ramps later, and the benefit won't be realized until they are gone.  Bite the bullet and do the whole thing now.

Couldn't buildings be built on the capped contaminated land?

Lol. It will cost a lot more if we wait until there's money for the whole project. The money is coming from the state, and the Duval delegation is almost entirely newbies. Getting $50 million for the east section is reasonable; getting $100 million or whatever for the whole thing is another story.
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Kerry

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The $50 million probably just isn't for demo.  There is going to have to be some rework where it ties into the bridge which I am sure as a significant cost.
Third Place

thelakelander

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"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Keith-N-Jax

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 I really hope they can get it done that whole area would look totally different when complete I just hope the funds are available and everything works out great for the city the Jaguars and the public

KenFSU

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A couple of questions:

1) If the ramps are knocked down, I wonder if that stadium parking lot to the left of the new Daily's Place and north of Met Park could be a possible target for cleanup-free development.



2) What's the deal with the riverfront property to the right of Met Park? Who owns it? Is it actively used for something? Is it contaminated?

3) It seems like we're getting some weirdly mixed signals in the last couple of weeks. On one hand, removing the ramps clearly opens up Met Park for the development that Shad Khan, Mark Lamping, and Curry have been openly discussing for the better part of the last year. But on the other hand, we're also re-opening the RFP for the Shipyards property. If someone bites on the Shipyards (and lord knows, the city's estimated cleanup cost of "who the fuck knows" sure must make the offer enticing), how do you pull off a Met Park development in the absence of that in-kind land to swap for it?
« Last Edit: December 04, 2016, 02:13:24 AM by KenFSU »

brucef58

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This is actually a good idea.  The reason for state funding is of course this is a state highway.  It is possible that some funding through FDOT will become available as there is a plan for a trillion dollar infrastructure investment from the new administration.

thelakelander

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A couple of questions:

1) If the ramps are knocked down, I wonder if that stadium parking lot to the left of the new Daily's Place and north of Met Park could be a possible target for cleanup-free development.

I don't know if it's contaminated or not, but it could possibly be used for development regardless of what happens with the viaduct.

Quote
2) What's the deal with the riverfront property to the right of Met Park? Who owns it? Is it actively used for something? Is it contaminated?

That's the Manson Construction Company's Jacksonville yard.  Mason is a Seattle-based marine construction and dredging company that was established in 1905. The Jax yard is their only Atlantic Coast location. All the barges, tugboats, cranes, etc. you see in the image, belongs to them.

http://www.mansonconstruction.com/

Quote
3) It seems like we're getting some weirdly mixed signals in the last couple of weeks. On one hand, removing the ramps clearly opens up Met Park for the development that Shad Khan, Mark Lamping, and Curry have been openly discussing for the better part of the last year. But on the other hand, we're also re-opening the RFP for the Shipyards property. If someone bites on the Shipyards (and lord knows, the city's estimated cleanup cost of "who the fuck knows" sure must make the offer enticing), how do you pull off a Met Park development in the absence of that in-kind land to swap for it?

The number of responses will most likely depend on how the RFP is written.
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Yumbomb

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By leaving the western ramps in place it looks like east - west streets, East of Ocean at least might remain one way ?

Can the Jacksonville Fair in some form operate year round across from Maxwellalong the more highly visible riverfront ?
Has this been discussed ?
If so, please pardon  my inability to find a thread on such
« Last Edit: December 06, 2016, 08:57:31 PM by Yumbomb »

Keith-N-Jax

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year round, why? would that work, I think people look forward to the fair in OCT, I know I did