Lenny Curry wants state money to remove Hart Bridge ramps near Everbank Field

[Jagsdrew]

It looks like maybe there are bike lanes included? I can't quite tell.

[Steve]

https://www.wokv.com/news/local/paving-the-way-for-progress-depth-proposed-hart-bridge-ramp-removal-project/VGsNzvtq2saby2IVu55i1J/

Looks like they've released some of the concept plans! WOKV doesn't have t e highest quality, but they have cropped sections in the lower portion of the article. Finally, y'all can see what I'm talking about. These are the latest plans we'v worked with COJ on. The sidewalk is in blue, BTW

Also, are they planning on keeping the ability to reverse the lanes as is in place currently? If not I'm totally okay with that; just curious. Hopefully they can do most of the work in a football offseason.

[Steve]

Disregard my post - just re-read.

[Steve]

It looks like maybe there are bike lanes included? I can't quite tell.

It looks like there are bike lanes, at least until the intersection with the Hart bridge.

[acme54321]

makes more sense now.  Do traffic studies really show the need for a 6 lane road there?

[Jagsdrew]

6-lanes is probably necessary since that is the main road to the sports complex.  Wish they would trim that down to 4 with two dedicated wide bike lanes and sidewalks on either side.  Make it more focused on bike use and pedestrians.  That area needs to be walkable if they envision all this development.

[Steve]

https://www.wokv.com/news/local/paving-the-way-for-progress-depth-proposed-hart-bridge-ramp-removal-project/VGsNzvtq2saby2IVu55i1J/

Looks like they've released some of the concept plans! WOKV doesn't have t e highest quality, but they have cropped sections in the lower portion of the article. Finally, y'all can see what I'm talking about. These are the latest plans we'v worked with COJ on. The sidewalk is in blue, BTW

I looked at it a little deeper. The Bay Street - APR intersection looks a little rough for the pedestrian. I see the logic from the automobile perspective, but think if you're a pedestrian in that area. To me (and I'm not a traffic engineer), there should be signals at both parts of the "double intersection" created there now, and there should be sidewalks on both sides of APR between both areas of Bay Street. They should also add a light at Bay & Lafayette street so pedestrians can get across if need be. I know it's a lot of lights but can't they be interconnected?

Alternatively, could you get rid of the Bay Street "split" just past Lafayette and put a light at Bay and Georgia?

[acme54321]

6-lanes is probably necessary since that is the main road to the sports complex.  Wish they would trim that down to 4 with two dedicated wide bike lanes and sidewalks on either side.  Make it more focused on bike use and pedestrians.  That area needs to be walkable if they envision all this development.

It's the main road to the stadium and it's 4 lanes now.  If they want to integrate the sports complex and shipyards like they claim it seems that such a wide road would be a bit of a divide on the pedestrian level.

[Steve]

As for the pedestrians, having sidewalk on the westerly side of that little stretch beneath the ramps makes little sense, why would you have two pathways beneath the bridge, creating more pedestrian crossing points across the busier roadway?

One of the challenges in our urban environment is sidewalks that just "end". In this example, one of Intuition's parking areas is on the other side of Bay Street. With the rendering, a person leaving intuition would have to cross APR, cross Westbound Bay, cross Eastbound Bay, then cross APR again (potentially) to get to their car.

We can't always prioritize the car over the pedestrian, especially not downtown.

[Charles Hunter]

It looks like the new terminus of the "downtown" section of the Hart system will consume much, if not all, the lot Intuition uses.  Am I reading the map correctly?

Also, are reversible lanes feasible (safe) when there is a median?

[heights unknown]

https://www.wokv.com/news/local/paving-the-way-for-progress-depth-proposed-hart-bridge-ramp-removal-project/VGsNzvtq2saby2IVu55i1J/

Looks like they've released some of the concept plans! WOKV doesn't have t e highest quality, but they have cropped sections in the lower portion of the article. Finally, y'all can see what I'm talking about. These are the latest plans we'v worked with COJ on. The sidewalk is in blue, BTW

Take the damn ramp, the section that's not needed near the stadium area and complex down and take it down yesterday. I never looked at this ramp as a barrier, etc., but this seems to be a well thought out plan and justification for removing most or all of that ramp. I used to love riding down that ramp and seeing the tall buildings in the skyline of Jacksonville, however, new developments, construction, etc., mandates and justifies the need to remove the ramps (parts of it) in which it is imperative that they (or it) be removed in order to make way for essential and much needed development and prosperity for the stadium district and downtown.

[heights unknown]

As for the pedestrians, having sidewalk on the westerly side of that little stretch beneath the ramps makes little sense, why would you have two pathways beneath the bridge, creating more pedestrian crossing points across the busier roadway?

One of the challenges in our urban environment is sidewalks that just "end". In this example, one of Intuition's parking areas is on the other side of Bay Street. With the rendering, a person leaving intuition would have to cross APR, cross Westbound Bay, cross Eastbound Bay, then cross APR again (potentially) to get to their car.

We can't always prioritize the car over the pedestrian, especially not downtown.

I agree. You must integrate and balance the "use" of cars and pedestrians equally in the urban core and downtown. You can't emphasize one and not the other.

[Charles Hunter]

< snip >
Reversible lanes shouldn't be a problem, you just have to end the reversible lanes before you go back to a divided roadway, just like what happens on Bay Street just east of the APR Street intersection.

I don't understand.  In the drawings, the full of Gator Bowl Blvd., from west of APRandolph to where the new ramps come down, is shown with grass or raised concrete medians.  The existing GB Blvd. / Bay Street only has a painted median, or just a center-line - no physical median anywhere.

[Charles Hunter]

The lane control lights and the Begin/End Reversible Lanes signs seem to indicate that the reversible lanes currently continue east of APR.  Am I correct?

[Steve]

Looking at it closely again, we've designed a pedestrian crossing point right there at Intuition's main parking lot. You can see the little splotch of blue peeking out from under the bridge, so it'll actually be an improvement over what's out there today since you'll have a pedestrian refuge area between the westbound and eastbound lanes. Looks like the problem wasn't ever even a problem, and is actually an improvement.   

I don't know if I'd call this an "improvement", but I get that you're constrained by having to do this in the first place. Personally, I think we can stand to just dump the entire elevated ramps, but I get the expense of doing that.

I'd love to see this one the signalization is complete.