Author Topic: Florida's Higher-Speed Rail TOD Takes Shape  (Read 6639 times)

Tacachale

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Re: Florida's Higher-Speed Rail TOD Takes Shape
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2016, 10:26:57 PM »
Has anything been stated that Brightline would go to the Jax Intermodal Terminal/Prime Osborn?

No but their AAF Jacksonville Segment LLC was created to confirm rights to run passenger rail on the tracks that that serve the old downtown Jax terminal.

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If not, I'd be concerned that they want to build their own station elsewhere as they did with the other cities. Most are in downtowns, but Orlando's is out at the airport.

Their stations are being built along FEC's existing line. In Miami's case, the terminal is the same site as the city's original passenger rail station. It also happens to be right next door to metrorail and metromover stations. They've also inked an agreement for Tri-Rail to serve the station too.  In Orlando's case, they don't already own ROW to serve DT Orlando. However, they did secure an agreement for ROW paralleling the Beachline between FEC's track on the cost and Orlando International Airport.  Also, Orlando's terminal is being built by the airport and is the same one that would have been built for the old Florida High Speed Rail project Rick Scott killed.

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Hopefully they don't decide to build by their tracks somewhere on the Southside (assuming they pull it off at all).

I doubt that happens unless we really screw things up......all assuming they actually pull an expansion to Jax off....

That's good to hear. I hope that JAXIS suits their needs for real estate development. I've heard that the West Palm station ended up being several blocks from the historic station for that reason, though I haven't verified that.

To others' comments on ridership to and from JAXIS, I don't think that fully appreciates the big picture of Brightline. A BIG element is real estate development; passenger trains just tie that all together. The stations alone are major mixed use developments that further allow for transit oriented development by FEC and others, as the article points out. That's where the bread gets buttered.

For Jax as with any of the cities, the real estate development by FEC would pay its own dividends. And beyond that, any passengers using the line at all is more than the 0 currently using it. That part won't be a huge expense as they already own the tracks.

Additionally, even beyond the St. Auggie and Daytona stops that could be part of this extension, Duval gets a very fair share of tourists. We don't tend to think about it because it pales in comparison to most other parts of Florida, but it's quite considerable compared to peer cities elsewhere. It's true that outside sports and certain events, it's mostly not happening Downtown (and the stadium district isn't easily accessible by transit). But it's not hard to imagine the more-than-zero tourists and business travelers taking Brightline and then renting a car or Uber. That's what they do when they come in from the airport, and that's a lot farther from stuff than the Prime Osborn.
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

thelakelander

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Re: Florida's Higher-Speed Rail TOD Takes Shape
« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2016, 10:55:52 PM »
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That's good to hear. I hope that JAXIS suits their needs for real estate development. I've heard that the West Palm station ended up being several blocks from the historic station for that reason, though I haven't verified that.

The historic station is along CSX tracks. AAF's Brightline will be using its sister company (FEC) tracks. AAF ended up buying surrounding property for their TOD at the West Palm Beach site.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Kerry

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Re: Florida's Higher-Speed Rail TOD Takes Shape
« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2016, 12:26:18 PM »
There are lots of reasons AAF should be extended to Jax in addition to the ones already mentioned and just as many reasons why the station should be located near the convention center.  Jacksonville has an airport that can further funnel tourist into Florida and is itself a cruise port with 3,000 passengers a week.  As for station location, JTA is getting ready to build the Regional Intermodal Transit station adjacent to the convention center.  It only makes sense that all new modes of transportation are incorporated there (including a future link to the airport).  Finally, I seem to recall there was speculation that Atlanta was the ultimate destination for AAF.  Connecting Atlanta with Orlando/South Florida via Jacksonville, and including 400 miles of beaches along the way would be huge – HUGE!
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Tacachale

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Re: Florida's Higher-Speed Rail TOD Takes Shape
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2016, 03:42:21 PM »
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That's good to hear. I hope that JAXIS suits their needs for real estate development. I've heard that the West Palm station ended up being several blocks from the historic station for that reason, though I haven't verified that.

The historic station is along CSX tracks. AAF's Brightline will be using its sister company (FEC) tracks. AAF ended up buying surrounding property for their TOD at the West Palm Beach site.

Ahh, that makes sense. That makes me feel better about Brightline at JAXIS. It would be really cool to have AAF buy up land around the Prime Osborn to develop. Do we know if JTA has been in talks with them as they work on the LaVilla master plan?
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

SightseerLounge

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Re: Florida's Higher-Speed Rail TOD Takes Shape
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2016, 12:25:39 PM »
Why do I think that this Brightline isn't going to be that great! Its a slightly cheaper version of the Florida High Speed Rail that was supposed to be here years ago. The State of Florida just got the Florida East Coast to fund this.

thelakelander

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Re: Florida's Higher-Speed Rail TOD Takes Shape
« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2016, 12:32:06 PM »
FHSR wasn't going to build this:





Although I wish FSHR would have been built, I do be this project stands a much better chance at ultimately being successful. It's not totally reliant on passenger rail and is more cost effective to operate and expand.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

FRANTZ46

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Re: Florida's Higher-Speed Rail TOD Takes Shape
« Reply #21 on: July 26, 2016, 09:38:08 AM »
This High Speed Rail might be good for(some) tourists coming to Florida but for locals living in Florida and for those living in the States who know their way around Fl, I don't think its going to work. fair will be too costly and on top of that you will need to RENT A CAR once you get there. for family trip that needs to travel around Fl. It would be easier for them to drive no matter how bad traffic is. If you can get a quick flight with an air fair around fl for 75 bucks why should people spend more on HSR trip?

The way I see it, it has to be really cheap; cheaper than flying  to attract locals and I doubt it will be.   

FlaBoy

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Re: Florida's Higher-Speed Rail TOD Takes Shape
« Reply #22 on: July 26, 2016, 10:21:35 AM »
I don't know about you, but taking your car into Orlando and especially Miami is a nightmare. I would certainly think about it if I needed to get to Miami for business. They have their circulator (Skyway) and Metrorail. But you just Uber around. For a family of five, it wouldn't make much sense for locals, but I can see businesses using it and tourists.

Tacachale

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Re: Florida's Higher-Speed Rail TOD Takes Shape
« Reply #23 on: July 26, 2016, 10:29:44 AM »
Yeah, driving to and around any of these cities blows.

I always felt that rail could work if it was faster than driving and cheaper than flying. Trains are a lot more comfortable than flying, especially for those who don't like flying to begin with. I don't see that having to rent a car from the station would be a big deal; people have to do that from airports already and they don't think twice about it. Plus, other than Orlando (which is at the airport), these stations are better located than the local airports.

I don't think AAF necessarily has that hard of a hill to climb to be successful, especially as passengers will be only one factor in the profits along with the real estate developments, and the fact that FEC already owns (most of) the tracks.
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

MOPAC Chaz

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Re: Florida's Higher-Speed Rail TOD Takes Shape
« Reply #24 on: August 17, 2016, 09:50:43 PM »
The Brightline might not make it North of West Palm Beach.

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In a major victory for All Aboard Florida opponents, a federal judge on Tuesday said Martin and Indian River counties have legal standing to proceed with a lawsuit against the Miami-to-Orlando passenger railroad service.

After reviewing thousands of pages of evidence, “the court concludes that the counties have now met their burden of demonstrating standing,” U.S. District Court Judge Christopher Cooper said in a 39-page memorandum released late Tuesday.

Details are in this TCPalm newspaper article.

http://www.tcpalm.com/news/shaping-our-future/all-aboard-florida/counties-score-a-big-win-can-proceed-with-federal-all-aboard-florida-lawsuit-3a381a19-0623-6265-e053-390378411.html