Author Topic: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn  (Read 18474 times)

UNFurbanist

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Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2016, 02:19:16 PM »
^This point is very true. Until more and more investments like this come, the land will remain cheap. However, the irony is that once that tipping point is reached it might already be too late and Brooklyn will mostly be a big jumble of suburban style parking lots. Maybe at that point businesses will parcel off their lots for other developments but I fear that is a long ways off.

Kerry

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Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2016, 02:24:05 PM »
Exactly^.  The City needs to get out in front of this so it is done right the first time and we can avoid retrofitting.
Third Place

Riverrat

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Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2016, 02:35:19 PM »
So sad to see 616 gone! They had the best Sunday afternoon parties. That said, this does look much better than the two vacant buildings that sit there now. I also appreciate that they went to the street with it. This is a "fine enough" project for the current situation.

Steve

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Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2016, 02:41:32 PM »
^This point is very true. Until more and more investments like this come, the land will remain cheap. However, the irony is that once that tipping point is reached it might already be too late and Brooklyn will mostly be a big jumble of suburban style parking lots. Maybe at that point businesses will parcel off their lots for other developments but I fear that is a long ways off.

In concept I agree, but we're seeing this happen in a positive way in some cases. For example, the YMCA was just going to build a big parking lot on the site of their current building; now they want to sell it. This particular one isn't bad; they could always dump part of the lots at any time and sell them. That's another reason to move the retail to the corner of Park and Roselle. The lot on Park would likely be the first one to attract interest, and you hate to have the entry against what could be a blank wall.

urbanlibertarian

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Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2016, 02:48:43 PM »
This clinic is risking a lot of private money betting they can be successful at that location.  If COJ pushes changes that make it more risky then we may get less development in that economically depressed area.  Let's not let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
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UNFurbanist

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Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2016, 03:26:20 PM »
^Agreed. Just making an observation. Ultimately this is good news... I'd like to start hearing more about all of these other supposedly proposed projects in Brooklyn which Lakelander has been alluding to ;) Like whatever happened to that hotel project?

Captain Zissou

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Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2016, 03:43:38 PM »
This clinic is risking a lot of private money betting they can be successful at that location.  If COJ pushes changes that make it more risky then we may get less development in that economically depressed area.  Let's not let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

A few design changes doesn't necessarily mean added costs.  Let's not let the city lay down for developers.   

CCMjax

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Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2016, 04:26:13 PM »
^This point is very true. Until more and more investments like this come, the land will remain cheap. However, the irony is that once that tipping point is reached it might already be too late and Brooklyn will mostly be a big jumble of suburban style parking lots. Maybe at that point businesses will parcel off their lots for other developments but I fear that is a long ways off.

In concept I agree, but we're seeing this happen in a positive way in some cases. For example, the YMCA was just going to build a big parking lot on the site of their current building; now they want to sell it. This particular one isn't bad; they could always dump part of the lots at any time and sell them. That's another reason to move the retail to the corner of Park and Roselle. The lot on Park would likely be the first one to attract interest, and you hate to have the entry against what could be a blank wall.

What you are suggesting is exactly what I was eluding to.  This is what would happen in a perfect world.  As soon as land values go up, the owner sells the Park frontage to some developer (or develops it themselves) and it goes from parking lot to storefront and there is street parking on Park, however, based on what has been done in the past, once it is initially constructed as surface parking, I see it being a parking lot for 20 years minimum.  Just like Brooklyn Station, the unfortunate part of that design is they initially constructed the surface parking right up to Riverside Ave, and it will likely remain that way for a couple decades thus casting a pseudo-suburban shadow over the area just blocks from downtown for some time to come, unless land value skyrockets.  Or unless they have some other phase planned that develops the streetfront when the market demands it which I'm not aware of.  It would be much much better to get it right during the initial design and construction, but I also understand the financial aspect and owner's perspective with the current situation.  That land is cheap right now and that is why they purchased it.
"The first man who, having enclosed a piece of ground, bethought himself of saying 'This is mine,' and found people simple enough to believe him, was the real founder of civil society." - Jean Jacques Rousseau

Kerry

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Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2016, 04:57:22 PM »
If building in a suburban style ultimately leads to urban density when the land runs out...then why has it never happened anywhere?  Jax is littered with old buildings with giant parking lots.  When does the urbanism start on those parking lots?
Third Place

UNFurbanist

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Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2016, 05:00:53 PM »
Here? Never.

Steve

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Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
« Reply #25 on: March 07, 2016, 05:29:22 PM »
If building in a suburban style ultimately leads to urban density when the land runs out...then why has it never happened anywhere?  Jax is littered with old buildings with giant parking lots.  When does the urbanism start on those parking lots?

When the economics of developing the land improve. In Riverside it's happened a fair bit-look at 1661 and Black Sheep. The problem is that the economics of downtown aren't good. Until someone can make money developing say a 20 story high rise apartment tower and charge enough rent to cover themselves, we're going to struggle. Part of it is also that people view their land as much more valuable than it is IMO.

thelakelander

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Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
« Reply #26 on: March 07, 2016, 05:41:50 PM »
If building in a suburban style ultimately leads to urban density when the land runs out...then why has it never happened anywhere?  Jax is littered with old buildings with giant parking lots.  When does the urbanism start on those parking lots?

Urbanism started over 100 years ago and we slaughtered most of it over the last 60 years. It won't be magically reappearing at a grand scale anytime soon. It will be baby steps for smaller markets like Jax that are slow to embrace and facilitate national trends.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Kerry

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Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
« Reply #27 on: March 07, 2016, 06:18:10 PM »
So why even go down the path of "we will fill it in later" if the economics will probably never be there to do it?  For this project they just need to eliminate the parking lot fronting Park.  63 parking spaces for a clinic with 7 exam rooms is more than excessive.
Third Place

thelakelander

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Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
« Reply #28 on: March 07, 2016, 06:30:32 PM »
I haven't looked into their parking needs, but the clinic only occupies a portion of the bottom floor. The second floor would be leased out. Depending on the type company locating upstairs and the popularity of the retail space, those spaces could very well be needed. So I can't say one way or another that their parking needs are excessive.

Imo, "We will fill it in later" probably occurs at the end of this new building's self life.  For example, it's replacing two suburban buildings (with lower density) that have probably been there for 40 or 50 years. Before them, there were probably houses on those sites.  So over a course of a century, the economics have changed. Unfortunately, that snail's pace isn't quick enough when compared to some of the first tier boom towns.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Kay

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Re: Medical Office Building Proposed in Brooklyn
« Reply #29 on: March 07, 2016, 08:14:57 PM »
This site plan needs to be challenged.  We should really try to create an urban streetscape on Park St.  That means parking lots fronting Park St. would not happen.  The entry can be solely on Rosselle.