Author Topic: How to fit a gas station into Brooklyn  (Read 58415 times)

thelakelander

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Re: How to fit a gas station into Brooklyn
« Reply #60 on: June 09, 2016, 09:56:01 AM »
Quote
The City and public have spent 15 years developing a plan for Brooklyn (and a new RFP is due next week).  Are we going to do this walkable urbanism thing or not.  If we aren't then we should just thank everyone for their time and money and move on

So true. So true. Some would say its time to shit or get off the pot....
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The_Choose_1

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Re: How to fit a gas station into Brooklyn
« Reply #61 on: June 09, 2016, 12:02:59 PM »



I see nothing wrong with this plan. But I'm surprised there isn't a way to get to this Gate store from Forest St. I could see a one way street so travelers could go right to the Gate store. Getting out of this area will be tricky during peck traffic. A gas station is needed in this area.
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thelakelander

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Re: How to fit a gas station into Brooklyn
« Reply #62 on: June 09, 2016, 12:12:55 PM »
A right-in, right-out on Forest would help circulation and open up more opportunities for better site design. Other than FDOT saying no (which can be overcome), I don't know why there isn't one.

As far as problems go, the store being set back from the sidewalk, like the station and site is in the Southside or Orange Park is the issue, not the use.

This is a problem because the design guidelines and community vision for this area of the city is to be pedestrian scale and walkable. Anything not following those guidelines does damage this overall community goal actually happening. Now if the goal and vision of the area has changed, then there's nothing wrong with the design.
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DrQue

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Re: How to fit a gas station into Brooklyn
« Reply #63 on: June 09, 2016, 02:58:40 PM »
I think this layout really sets a poor precedent. Also, if I recall correctly the NAI Hallmark hotel plan adjacent to 220 featured a large street-front surface lot. It will only take a few big parking lots and an interstate exit style gas station to make this area feel like any other non-core commercial corridor.

thelakelander

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Re: How to fit a gas station into Brooklyn
« Reply #64 on: June 09, 2016, 03:12:22 PM »
^Basically. In reality, the deviations allowed in recent projects are already making the area feel more like I-295/East Baymeadows than an authentic pedestrian scale urban core neighborhood. No surprise the proposed Gate plan is basically the same as the new one at East Baymeadows and RG Skinner.
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thelakelander

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Re: How to fit a gas station into Brooklyn
« Reply #65 on: June 09, 2016, 03:43:03 PM »
Speaking of East Baymeadows...here's a few shots of recent projects. For the most part, these would fit in like a glove with some of Brooklyn's recent developments.











The major difference is Brooklyn is near downtown, Riverside and the river, while East Baymeadows is not too far from SJTC, UNF and the future IKEA. Brooklyn can be much better but the streetscape and design standards will have to be those that embrace walkability.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Kay

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Re: How to fit a gas station into Brooklyn
« Reply #66 on: June 12, 2016, 07:24:22 PM »
Appeal hearing officially confirmed for Thursday, June 23, 2016 from 9 a.m. to 10:30 a.m. at City Hall in the Lynwood Roberts room.

FlaBoy

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Re: How to fit a gas station into Brooklyn
« Reply #67 on: June 21, 2016, 03:19:44 PM »
^ Thank you Stephen! Great stuff.

FlaBoy

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Re: How to fit a gas station into Brooklyn
« Reply #68 on: June 21, 2016, 04:40:03 PM »
^ Thank you Stephen! Great stuff.

Literally my pleasure. The actual meeting was most vexing.

Outside of Wiatt Bowers, I have to say that I was left less than impressed with the commitment to the actual mission of the board by its members.

Literally, the choice was clear:

The design principles that they are specifically charged with enforcing
vs
Gate's feeling of inconvenience in where they would have to park their delivery trucks.

It was grotesque.

It is so clear cut and such an easy change for them to really enhance that corner as you suggest. I appreciate you trying to keep them honest on this one!

strider

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Re: How to fit a gas station into Brooklyn
« Reply #69 on: June 21, 2016, 05:06:41 PM »
Just to confirm what I think I am reading; there are standardized guidelines already in place for how development in Brooklyn is supposed to progress and those guidelines are "law" such that everyone before and everyone after Gate has to follow them?

You are not asking Gate to "break new ground because that is how it should be"? 

While I understand the issue, I also look at the existing plaza layout and it is not "urban walk-able" is it?

I think it would be a future benefit if the station would be made more walk-able but if Gate is being asked to do what no one else has been required to do then it will be a tough road to go down.
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thelakelander

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Re: How to fit a gas station into Brooklyn
« Reply #70 on: June 21, 2016, 06:14:33 PM »
Just to confirm what I think I am reading; there are standardized guidelines already in place for how development in Brooklyn is supposed to progress and those guidelines are "law" such that everyone before and everyone after Gate has to follow them?

You are not asking Gate to "break new ground because that is how it should be"? 

While I understand the issue, I also look at the existing plaza layout and it is not "urban walk-able" is it?

I think it would be a future benefit if the station would be made more walk-able but if Gate is being asked to do what no one else has been required to do then it will be a tough road to go down.

The strip mall got a setback deviation. Most proposed projects ask for them. Brooklyn Riverside only turned out decent because the developer wanted something better than the DDRB had allowed for the previous suburban developer for that site. Everyone complains about a lack of money when it comes to downtown vibrancy. In reality, our lack of will to maintain/emforce the public policies needed to stimulate a pedestrian scale downtown is the core reason for its struggles.
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Kay

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Re: How to fit a gas station into Brooklyn
« Reply #71 on: June 22, 2016, 09:32:53 PM »
Wish me luck.  Feeling undermanned and overmatched.  Will give it my best.  A good turnout at the hearing will be helpful. 

ricker

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Re: How to fit a gas station into Brooklyn
« Reply #72 on: June 23, 2016, 11:07:39 AM »
Unable to attend.
Please tell us what happened?

thelakelander

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Re: How to fit a gas station into Brooklyn
« Reply #73 on: June 23, 2016, 01:34:47 PM »
Unfortunate, but not surprising. We have decades of precedent of letting people do whatever they want, even if it is against the established design guidelines. Gate just did what several others have in prior months, years and decades.

Unfortunately, the reality of Jax's situation can be boiled down to this:

If you can't get a gas station design right, what does that mean for establishing a walkable Brooklyn or downtown in the future? Placing my heart aside, my logical side would say you can't blame Jax's suburbanites for not wanting their tax dollars wasted in downtown. Hundreds of millions spent over the last five decades of revitalization and today's environment is what you've gotten as a result. Thus, when a Landing redevelopment plan or Shipyards proposal (both of which call for huge public subsidies) goes up in smoke, I'm one of the urban advocates who still sleeps well at night.

I'll stand by my statement in another thread that downtown's vibrancy (or lack of it) is less about the financial and more about getting public policy right and sticking to it.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2016, 01:40:19 PM by thelakelander »
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vicupstate

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Re: How to fit a gas station into Brooklyn
« Reply #74 on: June 23, 2016, 01:42:58 PM »
Kudos to those that fought the good fight. Can't say I am surprised at the result. Jacksonville has a vague idea of what it wants, but it has no idea of how to achieve it, and absolutely no willpower to do what is necessary, even if it did.
 
Someone seriously should have kept the proceedings more fair.  The bottom line is that if Gate can't adhere to the guidelines, or at least the vast majority of them,  then they shouldn't be allowed to build. Period.  They knew the rules when they bought the property, if they couldn't do what they wanted within them, they should have made other plans.   
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