Author Topic: Mayor Lenny Curry unveils plan for paying down Jacksonville's pension debt  (Read 26459 times)

camarocane

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Re: Mayor Lenny Curry unveils plan for paying down Jacksonville's pension debt
« Reply #30 on: February 26, 2016, 03:48:17 PM »

This is about taking out a loan that we don't begin to pay back until 2030, when there is a ton of interest to pay down, and it takes away the ability to use the half penny sales tax option for capital improvements for another 45 years from now.

To be honest, its kind of a terrible way to do this.  Just convenient for the moment.  Kick the dept waaay down the line, and give it lots of time to swell.

Think of is this way. Its a step in the right direction. Sure, we'll have a ton of interest to pay back BUT from the moment its signed into law, the pension STOPS for all future employees. It may take 50+ years to fix the problem, but it still fixes the problem.

Who really cares about the half cent sales tax for capital improvements? According to Mousa its not like they're going to invest any of those funds downtown until the pension issue is fixed anyway.

vicupstate

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Re: Mayor Lenny Curry unveils plan for paying down Jacksonville's pension debt
« Reply #31 on: February 26, 2016, 04:14:12 PM »
The benefit of the sales tax is that unlike the property tax, future mayors can't futz with it every year. That's part of how we got into our current situation. It's a forward thinking way of dealing with the issue. The 2030 start date puts some people off, which is understandable. But our yearly contributions are calculated by looking not just this year, but decades in the future (we'll always be dealing with retirement benefits). The reason our current contribution is so crippling -I think $150 million every year - is because there's no other dedicated funding going into it now or in the foreseeable future, so it has to come from the general budget. A dedicated injection coming up should free up a lot of money, especially when no future mayor can remove it.

So what do the other FL cities do?  Are pensions not paid for with General Fund revenues in the other cities? Does any other FL city pay for it's pension using Sales Taxes?
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Tacachale

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Re: Mayor Lenny Curry unveils plan for paying down Jacksonville's pension debt
« Reply #32 on: February 26, 2016, 04:22:45 PM »
The benefit of the sales tax is that unlike the property tax, future mayors can't futz with it every year. That's part of how we got into our current situation. It's a forward thinking way of dealing with the issue. The 2030 start date puts some people off, which is understandable. But our yearly contributions are calculated by looking not just this year, but decades in the future (we'll always be dealing with retirement benefits). The reason our current contribution is so crippling -I think $150 million every year - is because there's no other dedicated funding going into it now or in the foreseeable future, so it has to come from the general budget. A dedicated injection coming up should free up a lot of money, especially when no future mayor can remove it.

So what do the other FL cities do?  Are pensions not paid for with General Fund revenues in the other cities? Does any other FL city pay for it's pension using Sales Taxes?

No clue. But not all of them are fit models for Jacksonville. At any rate I doubt many of them have let things get as out of whack as we have.
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Tacachale

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Re: Mayor Lenny Curry unveils plan for paying down Jacksonville's pension debt
« Reply #33 on: February 26, 2016, 04:25:00 PM »

This is about taking out a loan that we don't begin to pay back until 2030, when there is a ton of interest to pay down, and it takes away the ability to use the half penny sales tax option for capital improvements for another 45 years from now.

To be honest, its kind of a terrible way to do this.  Just convenient for the moment.  Kick the dept waaay down the line, and give it lots of time to swell.

Think of is this way. Its a step in the right direction. Sure, we'll have a ton of interest to pay back BUT from the moment its signed into law, the pension STOPS for all future employees. It may take 50+ years to fix the problem, but it still fixes the problem.

Who really cares about the half cent sales tax for capital improvements? According to Mousa its not like they're going to invest any of those funds downtown until the pension issue is fixed anyway.

the decision will last forty five years after Curry is out of office.

This is the most attractive thing about it. We'll be dealing with retirement payment for a lot longer than 45 years, but if he just raised the mullahs rate the next mayor could cancel it in 4 or 8 years.
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

L.P. Hovercraft

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Re: Mayor Lenny Curry unveils plan for paying down Jacksonville's pension debt
« Reply #34 on: February 26, 2016, 06:21:37 PM »
I'm agin it.

If we're going to raise the sales tax a la The Better Jacksonville Plan v. 2.0, wouldn't it be better to again use it for funding infrastructure improvements so at least the city has something concrete to show for in a few years a la the BJP funded main library, ballpark, arena, courthouse, etc.?

Who really cares about the half cent sales tax for capital improvements? According to Mousa its not like they're going to invest any of those funds downtown until the pension issue is fixed anyway.

Maybe I'm a wild eyed optimist but why can't we do both at the same time?  A small property tax increase to help fund the police/fire pension liability and a BJP2 half cent sales tax increase to fund infrastructure improvements--complete streets, park improvements, saving the Laura Street trio, finally finishing the Skyway, a streetcar starter line, fixing potholes, pulling Liberty Street out of the river, etc.  Actual quality of life improvements for Jax residents might make the less glamorous pension fix a bit more palatable (a spoonful of sugar and all that).

And that's the real issue I have with Mayor Curry's plan--any progress for improving the city in general and downtown in particular is being held hostage in order to fund the pension liability because the word "tax" is now considered a filthy word and the phrase "I'ma raise taxes" is tantamount to political suicide and an abominable assault on the very gates of heaven itself. 

But elections have consequences so here we are.  Ultimately, we get the city we pay for.
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L.P. Hovercraft

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Re: Mayor Lenny Curry unveils plan for paying down Jacksonville's pension debt
« Reply #35 on: February 26, 2016, 06:35:39 PM »
If he just raised the mullahs rate the next mayor could cancel it in 4 or 8 years.

 :o
I think we really need to see the mayor's birth certificate now. 
Was he actually born in Kenya?  Is he a secret Muslim?!
"Let us not be blind to our differences, but let us also direct attention to our common interests and the means by which those differences can be resolved.  And if we cannot end now our differences, at least we can help make the world safe for diversity."
--John F. Kennedy, 6/10/1963

Tacachale

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Re: Mayor Lenny Curry unveils plan for paying down Jacksonville's pension debt
« Reply #36 on: February 26, 2016, 07:21:25 PM »
If he just raised the mullahs rate the next mayor could cancel it in 4 or 8 years.

 :o
I think we really need to see the mayor's birth certificate now. 
Was he actually born in Kenya?  Is he a secret Muslim?!

Ha one of my better autocorrects. *millage
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

BridgeTroll

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Re: Mayor Lenny Curry unveils plan for paying down Jacksonville's pension debt
« Reply #37 on: February 26, 2016, 08:56:14 PM »
Rofl... ;D... fuk
ing autocorrect.  8)
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

Greg in Jax

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Re: Mayor Lenny Curry unveils plan for paying down Jacksonville's pension debt
« Reply #38 on: February 27, 2016, 06:50:16 AM »
If we allow our government to do this, there is no limit to what they will try next. This must be voted on by the people.

The pension fund is unplayable and must be changed. Police and fire employees deserve no better that the average citizen they are paid to protect. This is just unions acting badly with unfair collective bargaining with a stupid administration.

This same fight is being played out all over America. Time to remind our government they are working for US!

thelakelander

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Re: Mayor Lenny Curry unveils plan for paying down Jacksonville's pension debt
« Reply #39 on: February 27, 2016, 07:08:25 AM »
If we allow our government to do this, there is no limit to what they will try next. This must be voted on by the people.

Voters will have a chance to ultimately decide. I wonder if there is a Plan B in the event a referendum fails?
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Noone

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Re: Mayor Lenny Curry unveils plan for paying down Jacksonville's pension debt
« Reply #40 on: February 27, 2016, 08:12:30 AM »
If we allow our government to do this, there is no limit to what they will try next. This must be voted on by the people.

Voters will have a chance to ultimately decide. I wonder if there is a Plan B in the event a referendum fails?


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camarocane

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Re: Mayor Lenny Curry unveils plan for paying down Jacksonville's pension debt
« Reply #41 on: February 27, 2016, 10:36:39 AM »
If we allow our government to do this, there is no limit to what they will try next. This must be voted on by the people.

The pension fund is unplayable and must be changed. Police and fire employees deserve no better that the average citizen they are paid to protect. This is just unions acting badly with unfair collective bargaining with a stupid administration.

This same fight is being played out all over America. Time to remind our government they are working for US!

Fairly certain this is what they are trying to accomplish. Unfortunately, or fortunately (depending on you outlook) the city can't legally touch the pension for vested, and maybe even new employees. This deal would ultimately discontinue the pension for all incoming new employees. It would float the existing employees until the last pension is paid out. Don't you think, if the COJ could legally cancel the pension they would have already done so? Yes, the unions would have to agree individually but they won't. Why would they?

vicupstate

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Re: Mayor Lenny Curry unveils plan for paying down Jacksonville's pension debt
« Reply #42 on: February 27, 2016, 12:09:30 PM »
The city must for ethics sake, do what it promised in terms of pensions.  However, I don't see any reason the shift to 401ks can't happen whether the referendum passes or not.
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Tacachale

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The pension bill easily passed through the Florida Senate today, 35-1. Now it goes on to Rick Scott to pass or veto; if it passes, the referendum will be held before too long. Possibly on the November ballot.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2016, 05:31:13 PM by Tacachale »
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

Charles Hunter

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Is there a Plan B if the referendum fails?