Author Topic: 1634 Ionia - owner requested demolition  (Read 121866 times)

Noone

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Re: 1634 Ionia - owner requested demolition
« Reply #150 on: February 02, 2016, 08:51:01 PM »
Watched some of the hearing. What was decided?

JaxUnicorn

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Re: 1634 Ionia - owner requested demolition
« Reply #151 on: February 03, 2016, 01:13:57 PM »
Unfortunately the LUZ Committee unanimously voted to DENY our appeal and ALLOW THE DEMOLITION.  The decision was not based on hard facts. 

Just as the HPC did, the LUZ Committee appeared to rely upon the Historic Planning Staff report and the Engineer's letter.  They asked me no questions whatsoever.  Before CM Love voted, he stated he's known Joel a long time. Does that mean because he's know him a long time means he just takes staff recommendation?  The Staff Report also suggested removal of the rear damaged structure and mothballing; that was never even on the table.

Staff Report recommended to allow the demolition; that decision was based in part on the following:
  • A site visit during which, based on the photographs, only the damaged portion of the structure was viewed
  • An opinion letter from an Engineer.
  • A single repair estimate.
  • A letter from the owner stating the structure was a danger.


Was an Engineering Report submitted that detailed the current structural assessment?  NO
Was an estimate to restore provided?  YES
Was the estimate accurate?  NO - the estimate provided was to restore it to a triplex, which would not be allowed.


Based on the lack of hard evidence provided, I really should not have had to provide anything, but I did.
  • I reminded the Committee that removal of the damaged rear area could be removed.
  • I reminded the Committee that the property could be sold or donated to someone who would restore it.
  • I quoted Section 602.4 of the 2014 Florida Building Code Existing Structures that states, "For repairs in an historic building, replacement or partial replacement of existing or missing features that match the original configuration, height, size and original methods of construction shall be permitted."  This means the structure is NOT required to be brought up to current building codes.
  • I quoted from the Wood and Timber Assessment Manual that discussed how to evaluate burned light framing and charring.
  • I provided photos that proved the exposed wall studs in the damaged rear addition that burned were not charred at all - only the lath was charred.
  • I provided photographic evidence proved only one of the ceiling joists had charring.
  • I provided photographic evidence of a completely restored structure on Walnut Court that suffered severe fire damage.
  • I provided photos of another structure that suffered just as much if not more fire damage in April 2015 and the letter that Baker Klein wrote saying that structure should be saved by removing the rear addition.  In both cases the letters were based on a visual inspection only; no structural assessment was done.  So why does Ionia have to come down and E 3rd does not?  Because the firm was asked to write a letter to save E 3rd and to write a letter to support demolition for Ionia.
  • I shared with the Committee what the engineer told me during our site visit:  "If the owner wants to pay me to do a structural analysis on it, I may, I may not."
 
There should have been a Structural Assessment/Inspection conducted that included load calculations and the actual inspection of the wall studs.  The engineer admitted she did not do any of that; no wall coverings were removed to determine the extent of fire damage behind plaster walls (because chances are there was no damage and that would not support the OPINION that the house needed to be demolished).

Did I provide my own engineering structural assessment?  No. And neither did the owner. Citizens should not have to prove the structure should be saved; the owner should have to prove the structure cannot be saved. 

It is more difficult to obtain HPC approval to repair windows or doors or build a new house than it is to obtain approval to destroy a contributing structure....and that's a shame.
Kim Pryor...Historic Springfield Resident...PSOS Founding Member

Kay

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Re: 1634 Ionia - owner requested demolition
« Reply #152 on: February 03, 2016, 09:42:09 PM »
Was SPAR there?

vicupstate

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Re: 1634 Ionia - owner requested demolition
« Reply #153 on: February 04, 2016, 08:11:26 AM »
Kim, sorry you worked so hard and yet were not successful.

Jacksonville is a joke on so many levels.   
"The problem with quotes on the internet is you can never be certain they're authentic." - Abraham Lincoln

mbwright

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Re: 1634 Ionia - owner requested demolition
« Reply #154 on: February 04, 2016, 08:43:01 AM »
Sad indeed.  You fight for what is right, and get screwed.  The agencies that should be protecting a historic district, do nothing, and actually encourage destruction. The burden of proof should be to prove that it is dangerous AND can not be saved, based upon the statutes and guidelines in place.  Engineering reports should be valid, and unbiased, and required to be performed by an expert in historical building construction.

strider

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Re: 1634 Ionia - owner requested demolition
« Reply #155 on: February 04, 2016, 09:21:52 AM »
Was SPAR there?

Michelle was there to provide SPAR's letter of support of the appeal (the SPAR Council DRC and board voted to save the house) and to speak , which she did well.

First and foremost we need to remember that this owner provided a letter that was in the official record stating he purchased this house with the intent of tearing it down.  The engineer providing expert opinions (and the only opinion that seemed to matter to the LUZ was the Engineer and Joel's) was hired solely to help tear this house down.  The historic department staff and the HPC do not like windows to be changed out because they consider that a loss of historic fabric.  They try to insist on wood replacements because that is closer to the original historic fabric.  They refuse to take the word of owners and contractors as to the condition of windows and doors for the purpose of replacing them but will take the word of an owner and engineer who want nothing but to remove all of the historic features the house may have from the face of the earth. Staff only looked at a small part of this house and they were "guided" to the determination that this house was not worth saving.  When you read the actual staff report, the report reads like it is about to recommend only removing the addition and then it jumps to the conclusion that the entire structure must come down. The HPC choose to ignore many facts and the opinions of actual preservationists and only take the word of the owner and engineer wanting to tear the house down.  The final decision from the HPC was based on two factors, cost and the fact that the owner and engineer claimed 95% of the historic features would be lost during a rehab. Like mentioned earlier, it sure seems easier to tear a historic house down that actually do your best to save it and restore it for many tomorrows to come.

LUZ is a different animal and I do not think we can hold them to the same preservation standard that we do the Staff and the HPC.  They will always be more willing to side with owner's property rights and with a trifecta of Staff, HPC and the Owner wishing to take the house down, well, the cards were stacked against the appeal succeeding.
"My father says that almost the whole world is asleep. Everybody you know. Everybody you see. Everybody you talk to. He says that only a few people are awake and they live in a state of constant total amazement." Patrica, Joe VS the Volcano.

JaxUnicorn

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Re: 1634 Ionia - owner requested demolition
« Reply #156 on: February 04, 2016, 11:47:45 AM »
Here's the link to the Appeal Hearing if anyone would like to watch:  http://link.theplatform.com/s/IfSiAC/media/_yhozW_THkbc

LUZ is a different animal and I do not think we can hold them to the same preservation standard that we do the Staff and the HPC.  They will always be more willing to side with owner's property rights and with a trifecta of Staff, HPC and the Owner wishing to take the house down, well, the cards were stacked against the appeal succeeding.
Sad indeed.  You fight for what is right, and get screwed.  The agencies that should be protecting a historic district, do nothing, and actually encourage destruction. The burden of proof should be to prove that it is dangerous AND can not be saved, based upon the statutes and guidelines in place.  Engineering reports should be valid, and unbiased, and required to be performed by an expert in historical building construction.

Mbwright, exactly!  Strider, I agree that we cannot hold LUZ to the same preservation standard as we do Staff and the HPC.  However, we can and certainly MUST hold them to a standard of Due Process. 

How about we require an actual Engineering REPORT?  What was provided was an opinion letter, written without any type of engineering analysis whatsoever.  If you'd like to read it, here's a link to a Preservation SOS' forum entry where I uploaded it:  http://forum.preservationsos.org/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=119&start=10#p17741 I quoted to LUZ what the engineer said to me when we both went into the property: 
Quote
If the owner wants to pay me to do a structural analysis on it, I may, I may not.

In the letter, the engineer states over and over that the structure "is beyond repair and poses a hazard to human life" and that the "structural elements...have all been compromised".  The letter never says "how". WHY is it beyond repair?  HOW have the structural elements been compromised?  My thought?  I don't care how much experience you have...If in fact your statements are true....Prove it! 

And it should have been the LUZ Committee's thought/reaction as well....


Kim Pryor...Historic Springfield Resident...PSOS Founding Member