Six awe-inspiring Jax skyscrapers never built

[CCMjax]

Here's an idea for Khan that avoids depending on the city to clean up any site.  Why doesn't he invest in some of the vacant buildings along Adams and Randolph and develop some of the vacant land around the Arena, baseball grounds and on some of the current surface lots west of the stadium?  And improve Metropolitan park while he's at it to connect to these developments to throw in some waterfront value to the area.  The intersection of Adams and Randolph could be a hoppin little center.  It already is when there are events going on and that's with only one real restaurant/bar there (soon to be two with Intuition's expansion).  Why not do this while the city is trying figure out which way is up and which is down?  The city could focus on DT (Laura Street) and Khan could focus his efforts on Adams/Randolph/Metro Park and not worry about cleanup.  Cleanup can come down the road along with demoing the jail. 

[mtraininjax]

The department stores and all the small stores and offices then were centered around Hemming Plaza. There is no reason that can't be the epicenter of the revival of DT too. 

Where are the department stores in Jacksonville now? They are with the people, in the suburbs. They are not coming back until the people come back downtown. Without people downtown, to rival the suburbs, downtown is dead. Don't try and tell me all the restaurants will keep it going, its the people spending their money, living downtown, using downtown, expanding downtown, where downtown becomes its only community, like San Marco, like Avondale, like Riverside. There is no community downtown, its a little over here, a nice idea over there. You have to get more people living downtown, Khan's plan can do this.

Why doesn't he invest in some of the vacant buildings along Adams and Randolph and develop some of the vacant land around the Arena, baseball grounds and on some of the current surface lots west of the stadium?

In a word, RIVER. The River is the jewel here with the access to it and traffic on the river with his development there, on the river. Why would he want a building on Adams or Randolph? He already has a building in foreclosure at Laura and Adams, not generating revenue for him. The River is the key for his program and who wants to live on Adams or Randolph, when the River is the key? Good idea, but the great one is to be On the River.

[vicupstate]

The department stores and all the small stores and offices then were centered around Hemming Plaza. There is no reason that can't be the epicenter of the revival of DT too. 

Where are the department stores in Jacksonville now? They are with the people, in the suburbs. They are not coming back until the people come back downtown. Without people downtown, to rival the suburbs, downtown is dead. Don't try and tell me all the restaurants will keep it going, its the people spending their money, living downtown, using downtown, expanding downtown, where downtown becomes its only community, like San Marco, like Avondale, like Riverside. There is no community downtown, its a little over here, a nice idea over there. You have to get more people living downtown, Khan's plan can do this.

Why doesn't he invest in some of the vacant buildings along Adams and Randolph and develop some of the vacant land around the Arena, baseball grounds and on some of the current surface lots west of the stadium?

In a word, RIVER. The River is the jewel here with the access to it and traffic on the river with his development there, on the river. Why would he want a building on Adams or Randolph? He already has a building in foreclosure at Laura and Adams, not generating revenue for him. The River is the key for his program and who wants to live on Adams or Randolph, when the River is the key? Good idea, but the great one is to be On the River.

The people aren't coming back until there is something to come back FOR.  Unique things that they can't find elsewhere, in an environment that is unique (and can't be build new) is that thing to come back for.  There are many others places in JAX that have water, and the proposed riverfront condo in Riverside certainly isn't setting records. The prior residential proposes for this exact same land was lukewarm as well.

If the land wasn't contaminated and uber expense to fix, I might be more willing to go with Khan's idea, but even so, it is just not realistic to the existing demand.   

I do not know of ONE city that was transformed from a single project that came about when that city's DT was this downtrodden.  But I can name a hundred cities that did it the only way that works, a long term, project by project, pedestrian oriented rejuvenation.       

[BennyKrik]

Jacksonville is a village. We do not need skyscrapers.

[CCMjax]

The department stores and all the small stores and offices then were centered around Hemming Plaza. There is no reason that can't be the epicenter of the revival of DT too. 

Where are the department stores in Jacksonville now? They are with the people, in the suburbs. They are not coming back until the people come back downtown. Without people downtown, to rival the suburbs, downtown is dead. Don't try and tell me all the restaurants will keep it going, its the people spending their money, living downtown, using downtown, expanding downtown, where downtown becomes its only community, like San Marco, like Avondale, like Riverside. There is no community downtown, its a little over here, a nice idea over there. You have to get more people living downtown, Khan's plan can do this.

Why doesn't he invest in some of the vacant buildings along Adams and Randolph and develop some of the vacant land around the Arena, baseball grounds and on some of the current surface lots west of the stadium?

In a word, RIVER. The River is the jewel here with the access to it and traffic on the river with his development there, on the river. Why would he want a building on Adams or Randolph? He already has a building in foreclosure at Laura and Adams, not generating revenue for him. The River is the key for his program and who wants to live on Adams or Randolph, when the River is the key? Good idea, but the great one is to be On the River.

Well, I know based on the recent presentations Lamping is hosting, he is fairly confident the city is going to clean it up for them but we shall see.  If they decide not to do the cleanup that leaves Khan to do it himself or find other ways to invest.  He has made it clear that he wants that area to be more vibrant.  The riverfront property is very valuable but does not necessarily possess magical powers for residential or hotel development in this town, see Berkman I & II, The Strand and all the financial troubles they've had.  See Riverside 220 and Brooklyn Station for successful developments off the river but within walking distance and view distance from upper floors.  I'm assuming they have been successful based on what I've heard and seen . . . that they've been filling up fairly quickly and the number of restaurants/shops that are planning on leasing space there or have already is beyond decent.  I don't know what the actual numbers are but Brooklyn has already become a vibrant area just since those places have opened up shop.     

This is why I proposed the idea of developing the vacant buildings and lots centered around the Adams and Randolph intersection.  Have you been to that intersection when there is an event going on?  There is an immense amount of activity going on.  There are 4 "professional" sports teams playing within a 100 feet of each other and an NFL team playing steps away.  There are also concerts pretty regularly at Veterans and Metro Park (steps away) that draw large crowds.  There is potential to develop that area further without spending $40 to $100 million in the next couple years cleaning up the riverfront down the street.  Money the city doesn't have right now, or at least acts as if they don't have it.  Maybe they could start with smaller scale developments on vacant property around Adams/Randolph that doesn't require extensive cleanup.  And improve the existing park and expand it with a connection north of Bay Street to the stadiums/developments so it gives easy and aesthetically impressive connectivity to the river.  The shipyards eventually need to be and will be developed into something, I think we all agree, but my idea allows for the city to be "fiscally responsible" and save up for that and do it when they actually have the funds.  They need to focus on the other projects actually in the downtown that absolutely need to happen asap (Barnett, Trio).  These projects will likely not be profitable but need to happen as part of a downtown master plan.  Win some you lose some in order to achieve overall success, can't keep looking at them as individual projects.

Another 900 lb gorilla  . . . . what happens to the elevated highway along Bay St with Khan's proposal?  I don't believe it's shown in the renderings, neither is Berkman II.  Kind of hard to develop what he had in mind with an elevated highway right there along the main street.  If that comes down, who pays for that?  Does Bay street need to be modified so it allows for street front development and highway passing behind buildings?  I have no clue what their plan is.  My idea doesn't require any modification of Bay Street or the highway . . . or cleanup.  Just a thought, just an option along with a dozen or so other options for the area but wanted to hear people's thoughts on it.

[thelakelander]

Jacksonville is a village. We do not need skyscrapers.

I'm working on a story now that will explain how our skyline was built and why we have a lot more office space than needed today. Text is complete but I stil need to add pictures and perhaps a map. At one point in time, there was a legit need. Believe it or not, none of the events had anything to do with Jax, as a city, downtown or its leadership. We just ended up on the losing end of events bigger than us.

[ProjectMaximus]

Oh very interesting Lake. Looking forward to learning about that!!

[Captain Zissou]

The department stores and all the small stores and offices then were centered around Hemming Plaza. There is no reason that can't be the epicenter of the revival of DT too. 

Where are the department stores in Jacksonville now? They are with the people, in the suburbs. They are not coming back until the people come back downtown. Without people downtown, to rival the suburbs, downtown is dead.

I admire your confidence and arrogance even when you're completely off base.  Even when I'm absolutely sure of something, I don't think I have the confidence that you exude in your half baked ideas.  Using department stores as an example is irrelevant, as the department store industry is an outdated idea and across the board they are losing money.  Sears is nearly out of business and Macy's has been in the tank due to their inability to keep up with market trends.  In 20 years, I imagine the only stores still around will be the most highest luxury stores with concierge services for customers.  People shop online for most everything they need these days and align with brands they feel a connection with.  There are so many more retailers in the market space and so many ways for customers to connect with the brands they want. You're right to say that we need to have more people downtown to support a better retail scene, but you couldn't be more wrong on what that retail would look like.