Author Topic: Massive Development in south end of Jacksonville awaiting OK  (Read 7437 times)

thelakelander

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A new development is in the works that could bring hundreds of new homes to the south end of Jacksonville. Called Wells Creek, it’s an 830-acre parcel on the east side of Philips Highway about 1½ miles south of Florida 9B.
It’s being developed by Eastland Partners, who also did Bartram Park and Queen’s Harbour. The zoning application actually calls for a maximum of 2,407 homes, but that’s based on maximum density per acre. Most of the parcel consists of wetlands, which can’t be developed, and Art Lancaster, vice president of Eastland, said the total will more likely be about 650 homes.

It’s all single-family homes, no multifamily, no retail.

Lancaster said no price range has been set, but it’s likely to be similar to Bartram Springs, starting about $250,000-$280,000.

The project has been recommended for approval by the city of Jacksonville’s Planning Commission and Land Use & Zoning Committee. Tuesday, it goes before the full City Council.

Development probably won’t start until next year, Lancaster said.

Full article: http://jacksonville.com/business/2015-06-20/story/sunday-business-notebook-development-south-end-jacksonville-awaiting-ok#cxrecs_s
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spuwho

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Re: Massive Development in south end of Jacksonville awaiting OK
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2015, 12:22:31 AM »
St Johns County just denied a 900 home development 10 miles away. They called it speculative and "sprawl".

I would be interested in knowing what the current unsold new home inventory is here in Jacksonville.

Tamaya on Beach Boulevard is struggling to sell units.  The next phase around the fire station has been delayed several times. It's already surrounded by UNF, FSCJ, a Library, 2 major shopping areas, and they still struggle.

The Navy is not expanding, and other than some minor corporate reshuffles, I am trying to figure out who is going to absorb all of this inventory? Where are they coming from? Its the same question I ask on the Shipyards. Why is housing inventory growth outstripping greater Jacksonville's population growth rate?


Jax Friend

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Re: Massive Development in south end of Jacksonville awaiting OK
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2015, 08:40:24 AM »
St Johns County just denied a 900 home development 10 miles away. They called it speculative and "sprawl".

I would be interested in knowing what the current unsold new home inventory is here in Jacksonville.

Tamaya on Beach Boulevard is struggling to sell units.  The next phase around the fire station has been delayed several times. It's already surrounded by UNF, FSCJ, a Library, 2 major shopping areas, and they still struggle.

The Navy is not expanding, and other than some minor corporate reshuffles, I am trying to figure out who is going to absorb all of this inventory? Where are they coming from? Its the same question I ask on the Shipyards. Why is housing inventory growth outstripping greater Jacksonville's population growth rate?

I think what you are describing is more a result of qualitative issues rather than quantitative. Nocatee is isolated, new, and controlled, and it appears to be selling well. Tamaya, on the other hand, is located on Beach Blvd, which many people may hold a negative perception of, even if that particular section is relatively nice. If Jacksonville had a stronger model for economic preservation and revitalization home buyers would feel more comfortable purchasing in inner city neighborhoods. Instead we continue to push our wealth to the fringes until the wealth belongs to adjacent counties. We can't keep writing off neighborhoods the second the last home is built.

spuwho

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Re: Massive Development in south end of Jacksonville awaiting OK
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2015, 01:27:08 PM »
St Johns County just denied a 900 home development 10 miles away. They called it speculative and "sprawl".

I would be interested in knowing what the current unsold new home inventory is here in Jacksonville.

Tamaya on Beach Boulevard is struggling to sell units.  The next phase around the fire station has been delayed several times. It's already surrounded by UNF, FSCJ, a Library, 2 major shopping areas, and they still struggle.

The Navy is not expanding, and other than some minor corporate reshuffles, I am trying to figure out who is going to absorb all of this inventory? Where are they coming from? Its the same question I ask on the Shipyards. Why is housing inventory growth outstripping greater Jacksonville's population growth rate?

I think what you are describing is more a result of qualitative issues rather than quantitative. Nocatee is isolated, new, and controlled, and it appears to be selling well. Tamaya, on the other hand, is located on Beach Blvd, which many people may hold a negative perception of, even if that particular section is relatively nice. If Jacksonville had a stronger model for economic preservation and revitalization home buyers would feel more comfortable purchasing in inner city neighborhoods. Instead we continue to push our wealth to the fringes until the wealth belongs to adjacent counties. We can't keep writing off neighborhoods the second the last home is built.

It would be interesting to know what those "negative" qualitative issues are.

Tamaya is across Beach from Jax Country Club and Highland Glen, 2 high end gated communities.

The only "downside" I can think of is that Tamaya is in Sandalwood High School area where the southside of Beach routes students to Atlantic Coast HS east of Kernan.

These new homes going up at US1 and 9B will be going to Atlantic Coast HS as well.

Can that be the biggest reason?


brainstormer

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Re: Massive Development in south end of Jacksonville awaiting OK
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2015, 02:08:30 PM »
As someone who is currently house hunting for our first home, I have been doing a lot of looking and researching. Jacksonville still has a significant number of foreclosures and in my opinion we are on our way to making the same mistakes that led to the last housing crash. My partner and I have a combined income over $100,000. We have no desire to spend $350,000 on a new home just because we can get approved for that much. You mentioned Tamaya, Nocatee, etc. All of them start at $350,000 and up. Yes, they are beautiful, extravagant, etc., but how many families can afford to live and pay for a 5 bedroom, $400,000 home? When you look at foreclosed homes they all seem to be examples of families buying more house than they need. They were sold this unrealistic ideal. We all don't need a 2600 square foot home. The AC and utility costs alone are in the hundreds of dollars per month for a house that size. Add on a $300 per month HOA fee, CDD fees onto tax bills, etc. You get my point.

From my perspective, I don't see how the new housing market in NE Florida is sustainable. A lot of the houses for sale right now seem to be homes in communities built between 2000-2005. There are hundreds of homes in the $180,000 to $240,000 range that are going quickly. Many of them are foreclosures or priced way below value. My guess is in ten years, Nocatee will start going through the same cycle. People will realize their $400,000 homes aren't affordable anymore, foreclosures will increase, and people will buy a new home for the same price just down the road in a new community rather than buy a home that is 15 years old.

People in my generation aren't interested in being slaves to a house payment only. Take a look at some of the realtor sites. There are about 700 homes on the market in Duval County priced at $500,000 and above. Saint Johns County has almost 800 homes priced at $500,000 and above. I might just be cynical, but I don't see NE Florida having the job base to support continued development of new and expensive subdivisions and communities.

The Wells Creek location would be good for me, but if they don't include a mix of house sizes in affordable ranges, then it is kind of out of the question. Tamaya was actually rezoned for Atlantic Coast High School, so I don't think their issues are necessarily about schools. I love the central location of Tamaya, so I would say that location is not the factor impacting low sales.

UNFurbanist

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Re: Massive Development in south end of Jacksonville awaiting OK
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2015, 05:48:37 PM »
Are these people nuts?! I can't believe the unstoppable roll of sprawl in this city.

thelakelander

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Re: Massive Development in south end of Jacksonville awaiting OK
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2015, 11:42:53 AM »
St Johns County just denied a 900 home development 10 miles away. They called it speculative and "sprawl".

I would be interested in knowing what the current unsold new home inventory is here in Jacksonville.

Tamaya on Beach Boulevard is struggling to sell units.  The next phase around the fire station has been delayed several times. It's already surrounded by UNF, FSCJ, a Library, 2 major shopping areas, and they still struggle.

The Navy is not expanding, and other than some minor corporate reshuffles, I am trying to figure out who is going to absorb all of this inventory? Where are they coming from? Its the same question I ask on the Shipyards. Why is housing inventory growth outstripping greater Jacksonville's population growth rate?

I think what you are describing is more a result of qualitative issues rather than quantitative. Nocatee is isolated, new, and controlled, and it appears to be selling well. Tamaya, on the other hand, is located on Beach Blvd, which many people may hold a negative perception of, even if that particular section is relatively nice. If Jacksonville had a stronger model for economic preservation and revitalization home buyers would feel more comfortable purchasing in inner city neighborhoods. Instead we continue to push our wealth to the fringes until the wealth belongs to adjacent counties. We can't keep writing off neighborhoods the second the last home is built.

It would be interesting to know what those "negative" qualitative issues are.

Tamaya is across Beach from Jax Country Club and Highland Glen, 2 high end gated communities.

The only "downside" I can think of is that Tamaya is in Sandalwood High School area where the southside of Beach routes students to Atlantic Coast HS east of Kernan.

These new homes going up at US1 and 9B will be going to Atlantic Coast HS as well.

Can that be the biggest reason?

Old Still, off of East Baymeadows appears to be doing better than Tamaya, despite still being in Jax's Southside...

Quote
By Carole Hawkins, Staff Writer

On the first day of sales at Old Still, AV Homes Division President David Smith was thinking about how quickly he could mobilize for phase two.
His team had already taken so many $5,000 deposits, it was clear the first 45 lots in the 124-home community were going to sell out quickly.

“We’ve been so busy, we can’t even write up the sales contracts right now,” he said Friday.

Quote
“I think it will be a good investment because of the location,” said the woman, who wouldn’t give her last name.

Her son has owned three condos and rents nearby at The Reserve. But this will be his first house. He’s been watching the project for eight months.

A shopper named Ned, who also wouldn’t give his last name, has been watching the community take shape from his apartment across the street.

“It’s not cookie cutter, there’s a diversity of floorplans,” he said. “There’s nothing like it around here, except for Deercreek and Deerwood. And those are huge amenity communities.”

Shimon Meir, an agent with Watson Realty, echoed the sentiment — the lack of amenities was refreshing. Old Still will have a park, but no CDD fees or huge association fees to worry about.

“Amenities are nice if you use them,” he said. “But, people who don’t use amenities don’t want to pay all of those fees.”

Full article: http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=545665
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spuwho

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Re: Massive Development in south end of Jacksonville awaiting OK
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2015, 02:04:32 PM »
I talked with some RE people.

They said there is pent up demand from people who went to apartments during the housing bust. They waited out the prices and the banks to begin lending again.

When I asked about Tamaya, the issue they said is the first phase (Terra Costa) are not popular floorplans and are expensive.

The other phases by 2 other builders are delayed again. They said those are the floorplans that are more popular.

I guess I should call NEFAR and see how the inventory flows in NE Florida.

It just seems that with interest rates being suppressed by the Fed, its making these large speculative developments easier to finance by developers.

That is what got us in trouble to begin with.

brainstormer

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Re: Massive Development in south end of Jacksonville awaiting OK
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2015, 09:24:56 PM »
I really appreciate those of you sharing on this thread, and I will continue to add my responses. I will echo the comments about Old Still by AV Homes. I was excited about not having to pay huge amenity center fees when it was proposed and the initial idea of a community set among the Oak trees was very attractive. Then when they released that the floor plans start in the upper 300s, it kind of killed that as a prospect for us.

So happy to hear someone else say that Tamaya is just too expensive. Completely agree. I like the location but the homes don't seem to fit the area.

I kind of wish there were more communities being built to resemble traditional neighborhoods. I love the homes in Rivertown in Saint Johns County, but the location is not really near much retail; kind of isolated. In my opinion, the Tamaya development would have been a perfect location to build neighborhoods in a more traditional street grid. It would have been something different and if they were priced more moderately, I think the homes would have sold much more quickly. They could have included home designs with front porches, minimum setbacks, and large back yards. Lakeside in Nocatee is very popular and a similar development would have caught on in Duval. I don't think Tamaya had the right vision to start with.

Jax95

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Re: Massive Development in south end of Jacksonville awaiting OK
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2017, 11:20:48 AM »
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« Last Edit: April 16, 2017, 11:24:21 AM by Jax95 »