America's Largest Cities Without A Downtown Starbucks

[finehoe]

It would seem some are missing the point.  Whether Starbucks has good or bad coffee or if you personally like it or not is irrelevant.  The fact that one of the most successful retail outlets of the 21st century doesn't feel the need to have a presence in downtown Jacksonville says volumes about the health of our central business district.

[Jaxson]

It appears that Starbucks is the 'canary in the coal mine' when it comes to the vibrancy of cities and their central business districts.  While I do not frequent Starbucks on a regular basis, it is a place where I can arrange for a quick meeting and also a chance for me to redeem the various gift cards that I receive from students.  The 'why don't we have [fill in the blank] in downtown Jacksonville' thing serves as a reminder that we have a way to go with regard to holding our city in higher esteem than having a reputation for being being able to screw up a two-car parade if given the chance...

[simms3]

Sounds like an opportunity for Bold Bean?  +1 for Chamblin's.  I think most folks would rather have Jax standing out for the amount of support we give to independent businesses.  Not having a Starbucks in your downtown is a good thing.  It shows that you're cool and don't follow the herd.  There's been a lot of solid small businesses started here in the past 5 years.  Maybe Jax is the Portland of the east coast and we are off the radar?  Now that's as cool as it gets.

OMG I think you need to go to Portland.  San Francisco, Seattle, and Portland are probably the best coffee cities in America with the greatest concentration of independent roasters, as well as the best roasters.  The biggest chains (like Starbucks from Seattle or Peets from the Bay Area) just happen to also come from these areas, not surprisingly.  I can guarantee you that downtown Portland has no less than a dozen Starbucks/Peets, in addition to dozens of other coffee places.

My big question is are Jax residents/workers not big coffee drinkers?  And if not, how do people work?

And for the record, Seattle's best is like Folgers or Maxwell House.  LoL


Having a Starbucks downtown is like having a Gap in your mall.  It's a simply a sign that your downtown isn't on its death bed and still has workers who work.  Starbucks real estate department is like that of Target's or Whole Food's RE department.  They are quite sophisticated for a retail site selection department, and they usually get it right.

So...this isn't good at all that we are the largest city (in the developed/developing world?) without a Sbux downtown.

I meant Portland in terms of entrepreneurial spirit and original ideas.  The neighborhoods right next to downtown, San Marco, Riverside, Springfield all have had great independent businesses start up in the last 5 years.  Maybe the focus shouldn't be on downtown as a specific entity but rather all of the intown neighborhoods as a whole.  There's not really much in the way of housing downtown, therefore, there's not going to be many people living there.  There's a Starbucks and Taco Bell in Macclenny, is anyone suggesting that Macclenny is an economic and cultural powerhouse?

I don't know what point you're  trying to make and you do sound like a typical Jax resident who hasn't [yet] gotten out of the city/region much, but you definitely just proved our point!  See emboldened sentence above.

Dude, I own a house in San Marco and travel/live all over the country.  Last year I lived for 3 months in Seattle and right now I'm in New Mexico.  Before that I split time between New England/California/Jacksonville.  I'll be coming back to Jax in a few months and happy to be there.  I know several folks that do the same thing.  They have a base in Jax even though they could live anywhere.

The vibe I get from Jax is very unique and very cool, once you scratch beneath the surface.  The surface is Taco Bells, Starbucks, malls, and that homogenized culture that exists almost everywhere.  If anyone is thinking the worth of a city is measured by homogenized culture then maybe the downtown and the intown neighborhoods of Jax are not for them.  Montpelier is the only state capital without a McDonalds.  Every time I goto Vermont a local brags about it.  It's a badge of honor.  Let's take up that same philosophy for Starbucks in our downtown.  Screw Starbucks and homogenized culture. 

And San Francisco has laws (called formula retail propositions) that ban chains in 75% of the city and also prides itself on an independent business community, but it still has at least 1-2 chain coffee shops on every single block downtown.  There are 60,000 people that live in greater Montpelier.  That's a single neighborhood in some places, so it's a little tough to compare to.  Of course a little village in Vermont might be proud to not have a Starbucks, which is a big corporate chain from across the coast.  But it's also the state capital of Vermont and sadly, a place that many if not most Americans have probably ever even heard of.  I don't think Jacksonville is striving to be a city that nobody's even heard of.

I work in DT a few days each week. We have a coffee machine in the office. That's where my daily cup comes from.

I grabbed a coffee earlier this morning down the street from where I live (at a local) and met a friend there, then we proceeded to walk to our bus stop and share a into work.  I literally just walked into the kitchen and grabbed another cup of Peets coffee from our machine (the other machine has Starbucks).  I don't see how an abundance of coffee shops and break room coffee can't coexist, since they do everywhere else, too.

[simms3]

I'm a bit surprised no one has mentioned it yet, but Urban Grind is downtown on Bay street next to Regions across from the Wells Fargo. They started at the little kiosk in the BoA building.

Good to know.  It actually sounds familiar - wondering if I've been there.  Coffee is one of those things I check out when I stop through town.

[ProjectMaximus]

Jacksonville is the largest city by population in Florida, and the largest city by area in the contiguous United States. Thus, it wins this competition hands down.

Ennis, why did you include this?? Your ranking is compiled by metro area. Seems a bit deceptive to imply that we're bigger than any other "city" in FL yet we don't have a starbucks downtown.

If I did the list by city, it would make Jax look a lot worse, due to consolidation. Nevertheless, I felt that statement was a fact worth mentioning.

Exactly, that's why I think it's not appropriate to use arbitrary city limits data (in most instances) and also why it did not deserve mention in the article.

I work in DT a few days each week. We have a coffee machine in the office. That's where my daily cup comes from.

A few years ago, there was a local coffee provider, Fazzini's (sp?), that provided those machines for many local offices. Dont know if that's still true.

[thelakelander]

I believe it is appropriate for the following reasons:

1. Instead of mentioning that it is the largest city in Florida...I also included "by population" and "area".
2. It was not used to generate the ranking at a detriment or benefit to Jax or any other community.
3. It's a fact (largest metro, largest city in Florida by population, largest city in America by land area, etc.) that is a major indictment of our downtown situation economically. 
4. I see no reason to sugar coat reality to make things seem better than they really are.

IMO, we spend hours wondering if grand proposals like Khan's Shipyards, the Barnett, etc. will ever happen but in reality, we have a downtown market that's being avoided by some of the largest retailers in the country. My hope is that by exposing things like this, we can identify the core problems, discuss/debate, and resolve them, sooner than later.

[menace1069]

I never understood why Maxwell House didn't put together a little coffee shop downtown. I know that retail is not their competitive advantage, but it would be something cool I think. I mean, we smell their coffee all day long when you're outside and then we go elsewhere and drink some coffee from some other brand.

[CG7]

I can get a good cup of coffee or espresso and socialize at the Landing, Urban Grind and especially Chamblin's. Shoot, Super Food makes a really good cup of coffee, and is great spot to meet up at. I guess it is just a matter of looking for better alternatives.

[ProjectMaximus]

I believe it is appropriate for the following reasons:

1. Instead of mentioning that it is the largest city in Florida...I also included "by population" and "area".
2. It was not used to generate the ranking at a detriment or benefit to Jax or any other community.
3. It's a fact (largest metro, largest city in Florida by population, largest city in America by land area, etc.) that is a major indictment of our downtown situation economically. 
4. I see no reason to sugar coat reality to make things seem better than they really are.

IMO, we spend hours wondering if grand proposals like Khan's Shipyards, the Barnett, etc. will ever happen but in reality, we have a downtown market that's being avoided by some of the largest retailers in the country. My hope is that by exposing things like this, we can identify the core problems, discuss/debate, and resolve them, sooner than later.

Fine. I encounter enough people in my daily life who don't discern between metro and city statistics that I am certain there will be visitors to this article who are deceived. But I obviously respect you and your point, and agree with your intentions.

[thelakelander]

I don't understand how anyone can be deceived. In this particular case, Jax is number one, no matter which way we slice it. Going by metro, which is more reflective of our true size, we can see that at least there are three in the +1 million range. Go by city numbers and you'll have Jax at +800k by itself, and the next city not showing up till we get in the +400k range. Either way, Jax is the largest without a Starbucks downtown.

[thelakelander]

I work in DT a few days each week. We have a coffee machine in the office. That's where my daily cup comes from.

I grabbed a coffee earlier this morning down the street from where I live (at a local) and met a friend there, then we proceeded to walk to our bus stop and share a into work.  I literally just walked into the kitchen and grabbed another cup of Peets coffee from our machine (the other machine has Starbucks).  I don't see how an abundance of coffee shops and break room coffee can't coexist, since they do everywhere else, too.

Oh, I wasn't making an excuse. They should be able to co-exist just fine. I use the machine because it's convenient. Anything else, would result in me having to alter my morning routine. There's two restaurants inside of the EverBank building but the coffee there isn't any better than what's coming out of our machine on the 14th floor.

Btw, I passed this in downtown Sarasota earlier this morning...


Sarasota has a city population of 53k and a metro population of 720k. I also noticed these tall weird Ts and upside down L's all over the place!

[Houseboat Mike]

I never understood why Maxwell House didn't put together a little coffee shop downtown. I know that retail is not their competitive advantage, but it would be something cool I think. I mean, we smell their coffee all day long when you're outside and then we go elsewhere and drink some coffee from some other brand.

+1000

[thelakelander]

The problem is that Maxwell House isn't in the business of doing cool stuff for DT Jax. As much as I'd like them too, something tells me if they thought it would be profitable and worth the trouble, they would have already done it.

[ProjectMaximus]

I don't understand how anyone can be deceived.

The deception was in the sentence I said should not be included, not with the rankings or method. You know that i communicate frequently with foreignors based overseas and here in the US, usually in an attempt to sell or market jacksonville, and very often when they do their own research I have to explain the difference between city and metro.

[simms3]

^^^Well this article has nothing to do with selling or marketing the City of Jacksonville...and I doubt is anything you'd ever pass on to someone.  Also, this website isn't in the business of phrasing articles according to how you may or may not communicate with foreigners.  There is absolutely nothing cut and dry with describing the size of a "city" on any continent.  Few people anywhere I'm sure think of a city only by its city limits (for instance, Jacksonville is not really the "biggest city in FL" and if anyone ever gives it any sort of brainpower at all beyond reading a stupid arbitrary stat on paper, nobody is concluding that Jacksonville is bigger than Miami).  So I think "city" is a pretty interchangeable phrase that means more or less the same thing to most lay people.

Atlanta is a big city.

Nobody is taking that statement to mean the jagged city boundaries that encompass 400,000 people is "big".  I think people take that to mean that Atlanta and its surroundings (which is what people think of when they think of Atlanta) is big, and encompasses millions of people.  To most people, they don't know or care how many millions, but it's abundantly clear that Atlanta is one of the biggest "cities" in America, with millions of people.  There are really only a few American cities that look, feel, and act their actual size per considerations of the global stage no matter how their stats are broken down (NYC, Chicago, Boston, Philly, SF, DC, Seattle, and LA).  Any other cities are probably just going to confuse the hell out of foreigners anyway.

I'm sure those foreigners you speak of are utterly confused if you stick to city limits and tell them Jax has 900K people, which in their mind should look something like Prague or Stockholm.  Perhaps you say Metro of 1.4 million.  Still means in their mind it should look something like Prague or Stockholm.  Either way, I'm sure, is super confusing to foreigners who come to the city and are wondering where "the city" is.

I digress...I thought today's article was very clear, and nothing changes no matter what stats or words on paper you decide to use.  Jacksonville is the largest city in America, perhaps the entire Starbucks global footprint, without a Starbucks in its downtown area.