Nocatee Town Center: Northeast Florida's Next Downtown?

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

KG, I was part of the original planning and building of Oak Leaf.

Not sure what your comments are meant to mean, but I will stand by that one being truly 'unique' in the overall development pattern of the early,mid 2000's.

We did our best to keep fairly large lots and relatively large setbacks (25' if I remember correctly) and when clearing the property, I was there personally tagging several old growth oaks and hardwoods that have been the feature of that neighborhood that you rarely see in any new development.

It's far from perfect, but it was, IMO, a positive addition even though it's still not a place I chose to live.

Oakleaf is unique? That's a joke right? Hopefully it is...Exurban sprawl is hardly unique. Part of the reason Blanding traffic sucks as much as it does. But hey, at least the FCX is coming through the neighborhood. Saving a few trees doesn't make up for what was destroyed in the process. In the words of KG...Onward!

Sorry for the confusion...  No.  Oak Leaf is not unique.  It's the typical, suburban live/work/play (all lies) complex that I would never move my family into. 

I specifically meant the development of The Oaks at Oakleaf regarding the lot sizing and maintaining as much old growth as we could.  There was very little clear-cutting used in that specific development.

[finehoe]

I can guarantee you that in many many cities, these new suburban communities end up far more racially diverse than the yuppified intown neighborhoods we all praise. 

This is a good point and quite true.  I see it in Washington DC and its suburbs.  It used to be that DC was "Chocolate City" and MD and VA were its "Vanilla Suburbs." Now Montgomery County, MD and Fairfax County, VA with their populations from literally all over the world are much more diverse than the inner core neighborhoods in Washington.

Nevertheless, for Nocatee, I suspect that isn't really the case (haven't actually seen the demographics, so I can't say for sure).  But you are most likely also correct about the from/not from Jacksonville aspect of the place.

[fsquid]

I'm struck by how many people above think it is somehow "better" for children to be raised in an environment where they are isolated from people who different from themselves, have to be driven everywhere they might want to go and have little access to anything other than electronic-based entertainment.  To each his/her own, I suppose.

well it seems if you let your kids walk anywhere nowadays, people call the cops on you.

[finehoe]

well it seems if you let your kids walk anywhere nowadays, people call the cops on you.

LOL.  That's true.  http://www.freerangekids.com/

[fsquid]

Nocatee is 86% white as of 2010 which is what is in the Census.  About par for Northern St. Johns I would say.

[Tacachale]

I can guarantee you that in many many cities, these new suburban communities end up far more racially diverse than the yuppified intown neighborhoods we all praise. 

This is a good point and quite true.  I see it in Washington DC and its suburbs.  It used to be that DC was "Chocolate City" and MD and VA were its "Vanilla Suburbs." Now Montgomery County, MD and Fairfax County, VA with their populations from literally all over the world are much more diverse than the inner core neighborhoods in Washington.

Nevertheless, for Nocatee, I suspect that isn't really the case (haven't actually seen the demographics, so I can't say for sure).  But you are most likely also correct about the from/not from Jacksonville aspect of the place.

There are suburbs and then there are suburbs. Suburban neighborhoods in Arlington, much of the Westside, and old Southside & Baymeadows are diverse. St. Johns County, not so much. It will likely happen there as the neighborhoods age and new development moves elsewhere.

[simms3]

^^^I wonder what % white the glorified parts of Avondale, Ortega, San Marco, and Riverside are.  Maybe even higher!

Most interesting to me would be what % of Nocatee is not even from the state of FL, and what % of the urban core of Jacksonville was born and raised in Jacksonville.  I think "diversity" goes well beyond just plain old skin color or ethnicity (in fact there are ethnic European whites that bring a whole lotta non-Anglo diversity to America).

But yes, at the end of the day, SJC as a whole is one of the whitest counties in America.  It shouldn't serve as a representation of suburban communities everywhere.  I think that may actually reflect more on NE FL as a whole, because the suburbs are where immigrants and "diversity" really is headed if not already located in most of America, these days.  And in my own experience, the intown neighborhoods of Jax are hardly diverse.  Maybe NE FL just isn't attracting the Latin/Asian population that other FL/growing Sunbelt cities are, and so it's basically a bunch of white people that move to the area and perpetuate white suburbia, which makes it appear as if there is still actually "white flight" going on.

[Tacachale]

^^^I wonder what % white the glorified parts of Avondale, Ortega, San Marco, and Riverside are.  Maybe even higher!

Most interesting to me would be what % of Nocatee is not even from the state of FL, and what % of the urban core of Jacksonville was born and raised in Jacksonville.  I think "diversity" goes well beyond just plain old skin color or ethnicity (in fact there are ethnic European whites that bring a whole lotta non-Anglo diversity to America).

But yes, at the end of the day, SJC as a whole is one of the whitest counties in America.  It shouldn't serve as a representation of suburban communities everywhere.  I think that may actually reflect more on NE FL as a whole, because the suburbs are where immigrants and "diversity" really is headed if not already located in most of America, these days.  And in my own experience, the intown neighborhoods of Jax are hardly diverse.  Maybe NE FL just isn't attracting the Latin/Asian population that other FL/growing Sunbelt cities are, and so it's basically a bunch of white people that move to the area and perpetuate white suburbia, which makes it appear as if there is still actually "white flight" going on.

The suburbs are where much of the diversity is headed in Jacksonville too, particularly the areas I listed. We see fewer Asians and Hispanics than some places (and more than others) but a more diverse immigrant profile than average (a lot of them coming from Eastern Europe and the Middle East are categorized as "white"). I suppose it depends on how you count "diversity", but the urban core neighborhoods are the most "non-white" in the metro area, though probably not Ortega and parts of Avondale.

[fsquid]

Ortega is 98% white, San Marco 71%, Riverside 75%.  Those are unofficial as they don't have CDP like Nocatee has.

[Tacachale]

And around the corner are neighborhoods that are 80% African-American or more.

[Know Growth]

I know of a (yepper; white) young couple with two children that moved from Riverside to Nocatee.Thrilled. School 'quality' one driver.

On another Nocatee angle, for a year or so leading up to the surprise Nocatee development push announcement, the FTU produced incessant articles on the Davis family consumptive water use permits,ostensibly for "Wildlife".
Meanwhile,future roadway/St Augustine Rd Extension was of no interest to the FTU editors.

[Know Growth]

And around the corner are neighborhoods that are 80% African-American or more.

......and until fairly recently,80% or more 'white'.

White Flight/White Aversion has been key player in regional growth.

[Know Growth]

I'm struck by how many people above think it is somehow "better" for children to be raised in an environment where they are isolated from people who different from themselves, have to be driven everywhere they might want to go and have little access to anything other than electronic-based entertainment.  To each his/her own, I suppose.

Actually finehoe, Nocatee has more recreational opportunities for kids than just about anywhere in Jax. I'd say the Beaches or Nocatee is where people who want their kids to have an active physical/recreational lifestyle should live.

I personally had an opportunity to buy in Nocatee at a 15% discount (family member works for a builder) and wasn't interested (not my cup of tea), but the parks, preserves, trails, pools, and recreational opportunities are the one thing that did interest me. Anyone that disagrees should look at the parks and outdoor/nature sections on the Nocatee website.

http://nocatee.com/amenities/

I get where you are coming from on the other stuff, but not when it comes to things to do for kids.

Excellent points.

[Know Growth]

KG, I was part of the original planning and building of The Oaks.

Not sure what your comments are meant to mean, but I will stand by that one being truly 'unique' in the overall development pattern of the early,mid 2000's.

We did our best to keep fairly large lots and relatively large setbacks (25' if I remember correctly) and when clearing the property, I was there personally tagging several old growth oaks and hardwoods that have been the feature of that neighborhood that you rarely see in any new development.

It's far from perfect, but it was, IMO, a positive addition even though it's still not a place I chose to live.

I recall a Brannon/Chaffee Sector Plan meeting where some citizen participants declared they would support development "if it can be like Riverside and Avondale". I was thinking to myself; carve a development out of basically raw acreage,live out there......on a tiny lot? 

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

KG, I was part of the original planning and building of The Oaks.

Not sure what your comments are meant to mean, but I will stand by that one being truly 'unique' in the overall development pattern of the early,mid 2000's.

We did our best to keep fairly large lots and relatively large setbacks (25' if I remember correctly) and when clearing the property, I was there personally tagging several old growth oaks and hardwoods that have been the feature of that neighborhood that you rarely see in any new development.

It's far from perfect, but it was, IMO, a positive addition even though it's still not a place I chose to live.

I recall a Brannon/Chaffee Sector Plan meeting where some citizen participants declared they would support development "if it can be like Riverside and Avondale". I was thinking to myself; carve a development out of basically raw acreage,live out there......on a tiny lot? 

Then they missed the mark, lol.