Nocatee Town Center: Northeast Florida's Next Downtown?

[Know Growth]

Bold (Low Crime!) New City

The unveiling of Nocatee was a "surprise" to most- a calculated move to establish vested rights while the 'Gettin was good during an era when some figured such a proposal would never 'fly' in the future.

Just part & parcel of militant anti Duval narrative,will play an important role in accommodating white flight.
Shucks,if I was moving "here" about now,I would be inclined to move there......

Instead,lucky I guess,to have been a member of certified "Enviro" during Nocatee emerge.Florida Wildlife Federation Board member.Attorneys. Depositions. We (FWF) worked ardently to thwart the Southeast Landfill,little did we know.

I got an early jolt,predictive capability via reviewing obscure future roadway proposals- St Aug Road extension et al.About a year before The Announcement.

A file of mine regarding sludge dump and "Preservation Area" might be worth looking for.

Nocatee was a driver in the creation of Florida Wildlife Federation Regional Office,and an impressive chain of "wins" for the general public and community.
It's still amazing to me how such vast current event news and information escapes a forum like this,well past page 1.
On the other hand,so many 'on the ground' could care little of column inch "News".

You outa' see what's on the horizon!   
 

[coredumped]

I've both been to nocatee and can afford to live there. It's just very unappealing to me. There's no tress, and in my opinion, no charm.
I've read some horror stories on the city-data forums about the quality of the houses, not all builders but one in particular.
It will be interesting to see the values of these homes in 10-20 years when the kids there become teenagers and the mischief starts.

[Know Growth]

Just goes to show ya' that when white folk move in,the place goes downhill

 

What we see today is far from what future Units will aspire to. "New & Improved Nocatee".

Nocatee considered positioned more favorably than Inland "Dark Horse" Oak Leaf. For instance.

I recall the negotiations, the assumed ideal "Cluster" narrative- group the development,and spare the rest (much of which undevelopable anyway, yet proudly "preserved").
Wild lands gone. The entire Nocatee area could have been state conservation lands purchase,enhancing NE Florida appeal in it's own right.

There is apparently great demand for five acre +/- parcels,a large land area swath truly guaranteed  rural/semi rural, truly different community centers. Too bad that scenario did not play out.But the development profit potential would have been dashed.

When Nocatee jumped out, seemingly by surprise, many realized this would be a definitive Stamp on the landscape, representing the outlook of a region then dangling between past and future.Here's looking at Then!

[fsquid]

No taco bell there either.

[simms3]

Know Growth, were you loaded when you wrote those two last posts?

[Overstreet]

The best thing about Nocatee is that it takes some of the "heat" off of Mandarin and St Johns on this forum.

[WarDamJagFan]

I'm personally happy to see Nocatee doing well because I worked with Robert M Angus & Associates back in 2004-05 when they were the contracted Land Surveying company for the entire development. Fighting off commercial airline sized mosquitos, pygmy rattlesnakes, and pulling out ticks on a daily basis from surveying endless wetlands and pine-forests provided me a lot of cash for college.

I know the general opinion for most people in this forum leans heavily towards Urban Core development where you can walk or bike to everything. But for people with families, crowded urban-core living is typically the last thing on their mind. While working at Deutsche Bank, we communicated on a daily basis with our Derivatives team in the Chicago office. Out of 10 colleagues, not a single one of them lived in downtown Chicago. They all commuted an average of 1.5 hours from the suburbs.

For Jacksonville, it's the same scenario. Families don't want to live in a small, cramped living space just for the sake of being able to be in an urban living environment (Granted, only Riverside really offers a hint of that type of living). When my wife and I have kids, we will look at living in an area that is safe, provides plenty of living space, good school system, and an overall great environment for kids to grow up in. The core of Jacksonville provides none of that. So if that means "white flight" to Nocatee, then so be it.

St Johns County is to Jacksonville what the Alpharatta / Marrietta area is to Atlanta. Those are very strong communities that won't be going away any time soon. Nocatee is on the fast track to becoming the center piece for SJC.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

KG, I was part of the original planning and building of The Oaks.

Not sure what your comments are meant to mean, but I will stand by that one being truly 'unique' in the overall development pattern of the early,mid 2000's.

We did our best to keep fairly large lots and relatively large setbacks (25' if I remember correctly) and when clearing the property, I was there personally tagging several old growth oaks and hardwoods that have been the feature of that neighborhood that you rarely see in any new development.

It's far from perfect, but it was, IMO, a positive addition even though it's still not a place I chose to live.

[blizz01]

If Jacksonville had been Mad Men's backdrop/setting, Nocatee might have been Don Draper's destination on the 5 o'clock train (assuming JAX had light rail, lol).

As much as I've spent the better part of my professional career commuting ~2 hours daily, I now work from home & travel frequently.  The hardest adjustment for me was actually relinquishing the quiet time for myself to relax, prep for the day, take inventory of happenings/developments along my route, listen to whatever I want on the radio, and ultimately unwind on the trip home.  Nowadays, it's more of an instant grind with really no transition into family mode in the afternoon(s).  So for me, I prefer some distance between where I live & work (in addition to everything else mentioned above specific to environment, schools, etc.).  Perhaps it's a bit selfish (like Don), but it's all personal preference and discipline. 

Also, I contend that there's more to these planned communities than just stay at home Soccer Moms - I'd be curious to see the average age/occupancy - specifically retirees.

[CityLife]

^There's an entire age restricted retirement community within Nocatee, called Del Webb Ponte Vedra. It is projected to have 2k residences at buildout. Has its own 37,000 square foot clubhouse, pools, fitness center, parks, and a 10' multi-use path through the whole development. The whole thing is surrounded by preserve.

http://nocatee.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Riverwood_Master_-5-2013.pdf

[finehoe]

I'm struck by how many people above think it is somehow "better" for children to be raised in an environment where they are isolated from people who different from themselves, have to be driven everywhere they might want to go and have little access to anything other than electronic-based entertainment.  To each his/her own, I suppose.

[WarDamJagFan]

I'm struck by how many people above think it is somehow "better" for children to be raised in an environment where they are isolated from people who different from themselves, have to be driven everywhere they might want to go and have little access to anything other than electronic-based entertainment.  To each his/her own, I suppose.

Close access to the beach, youth sports leagues, a big yard to play in, etc. is a bit more than electronic-based entertainment. And again, it's all about space. If you have 2, 3 kids, in my mind it makes no sense to live (if you have the choice) in an area in which you basically have no yard and your living space is crammed, vs an area which provides more square footage and more green space. Suburbs tend to offer the latter, and city core living does not.

And if suburbs are more homogeneous in demographics in certain areas, then so what? Will a kid who grows up in a mostly white neighborhood and is taught right vs wrong, the importance of hard work, excels in school, and then moves on into the work force be less ready for the real world than a kid who grew up in a neighborhood and school that's 30% white, 30% hispanic, 20 % black, 20% Asian and taught all the same things? Absolutely not.

[CityLife]

I'm struck by how many people above think it is somehow "better" for children to be raised in an environment where they are isolated from people who different from themselves, have to be driven everywhere they might want to go and have little access to anything other than electronic-based entertainment.  To each his/her own, I suppose.

Actually finehoe, Nocatee has more recreational opportunities for kids than just about anywhere in Jax. I'd say the Beaches or Nocatee is where people who want their kids to have an active physical/recreational lifestyle should live.

I personally had an opportunity to buy in Nocatee at a 15% discount (family member works for a builder) and wasn't interested (not my cup of tea), but the parks, preserves, trails, pools, and recreational opportunities are the one thing that did interest me. Anyone that disagrees should look at the parks and outdoor/nature sections on the Nocatee website.

http://nocatee.com/amenities/

I get where you are coming from on the other stuff, but not when it comes to things to do for kids.

[cline]

KG, I was part of the original planning and building of Oak Leaf.

Not sure what your comments are meant to mean, but I will stand by that one being truly 'unique' in the overall development pattern of the early,mid 2000's.

We did our best to keep fairly large lots and relatively large setbacks (25' if I remember correctly) and when clearing the property, I was there personally tagging several old growth oaks and hardwoods that have been the feature of that neighborhood that you rarely see in any new development.

It's far from perfect, but it was, IMO, a positive addition even though it's still not a place I chose to live.

Oakleaf is unique? That's a joke right? Hopefully it is...Exurban sprawl is hardly unique. Part of the reason Blanding traffic sucks as much as it does. But hey, at least the FCX is coming through the neighborhood. Saving a few trees doesn't make up for what was destroyed in the process. In the words of KG...Onward!

[simms3]

I'm struck by how many people above think it is somehow "better" for children to be raised in an environment where they are isolated from people who different from themselves, have to be driven everywhere they might want to go and have little access to anything other than electronic-based entertainment.  To each his/her own, I suppose.

Finehoe, I am a gay living in San Francisco.  I personally cannot fathom a place like Nocatee.  But, I do work on many such developments myself.  I can guarantee you that in many many cities, these new suburban communities end up far more racially diverse than the yuppified intown neighborhoods we all praise.  A big rather undiscussed trend going on today is that the urban cores of many cities are becoming less and less diverse while the newer suburbs are becoming very very diverse.  This may not be the case in SJC in particular, but it is not a reflection on Nocatee, but rather the County and the region overall (it would hint that there isn't A LOT of diversity moving to NE FL...if there were, and if NE FL follows trends of other cities/metros, then that diversity would actually be heading to Nocatee, not to Avondale or San Marco or Riverside).


In terms of having to be driven everywhere.  Let's not kid ourselves, this is Jacksonville.  If you are *that* wanting of an urban lifestyle/carless lifestyle, you would not be living really anywhere in FL, if that is your top criteria.  Riverside is less dense and more car oriented than many of the furthest out burbs of many of this autocentric country's largest cities.  Let's not forget that!

And if I want the most homogeneous neighborhoods I can think, perhaps not entirely by race, but of people who have never really left Jax, I can guarantee myself that in the intown neighborhoods where all the "locals" and "local families" with "history" in the area live.  Talk about a group, whether black or white (and you won't get anything else, and A LOT more white) that is without exposure outside of their little Jacksonville bubble!!!!  I can guarantee you that Nocatee is chalk full of not only more diversity than you are probably aware of, but filled with transplants from all around the country who have lived elsewhere and can appreciate taking up new roots near other people just like them who moved from somewhere else and know nobody.

It's sad we don't build neighborhoods like Avondale, San Marco, or Ortega anymore.  But these are not dense, urban neighborhoods, but rather streetcar neighborhoods that could be 30 miles outside a city center in a larger metro.  The truly urban cities are becoming phenotypic paradises for professionals, those making big bucks eating at good restaurants and shopping at trendy stores.  The big cities are all pricing out the poor immigrants who don't adapt and think up ways to remain in the city.  And where are they going?  The suburbs!