Stories Behind the Concrete Slabs of Jax: Part I

[thelakelander]

Jacksonville was Tampa, Miami and Orlando before WWII.  I'd say, there were some things beyond Jacksonville's control that have resulted in those metropolitan areas significantly outgrowing ours since.

1. Jax is and has always been pretty isolated compared to those other communities. For example, while Jax, Tampa and Miami were similarly sized in the early 1900s, there were other decent sized growing communities within close proximity of the others. These places include cities like Fort Lauderdale, Hialeah, St. Petersburg, Clearwater, Lakeland, etc. So while all our cities have grown, so have the slightly smaller ones that were adjacent to Tampa and Miami. Once we really started sprawling, all of those places simply grew into each other, forming the larger metropolitan areas we know today. Up in Jax, the second largest city in our region is St. Augustine.....which is pretty small.

2. In Orlando's case.....Disney! There are examples all across the country, where landing a major business, industry, etc. has transformed a community. Delta and the response to Civil Rights sent Atlanta and Birmingham in two different directions a few decades back. In Orlando's case, landing Disney has transformed that region's economic base.

3. In Miami's case, look no further than the Cuban Revolution of the 1950s.  Over 500,000 Cuban exiles came to South Florida in the following 15 year period, forever changing that metropolitan area and pushing it into another tier...population-wise.

[Houseboat Mike]

One thought I had...if these buildings were still there.....where would the skyway be?

[thelakelander]

^With Hogan Street, the Skyway was built over public ROW. I suspect something like that could have been done along West Bay.  However, by the time the Skyway was being planned, West Bay/LaVilla was considered the dumps. So most public projects focused on revitalization viewed replacing existing structures with new projects as improvement.

[Houseboat Mike]

^With Hogan Street, the Skyway was built over public ROW. I suspect something like that could have been done along West Bay.  However, by the time the Skyway was being planned, West Bay/LaVilla was considered the dumps. So most public projects focused on revitalization viewed replacing existing structures with new projects as improvement.

Fair enough Lake. BTW...you listed this as part one...just curious- how many parts are you planning?

And by the way- thank you for all of your hard work on this site.

[thelakelander]

I had no idea McCoys Creek was that far north! Anyone have a map showing the original route?

1884 map of Jacksonville:


1888 map of Jacksonville:

[thelakelander]

Fair enough Lake. BTW...you listed this as part one...just curious- how many parts are you planning?

There's slabs all over this city, so this series could get very long. I already have another article with another six on West Bay and Forsyth Streets almost ready to go.  I split them off and decided to do a series, when this article started to get way too long. I decided to do this series after riding the skyway and seriously taking note of the building footprints, some of which, have still have pretty interesting tile work.

And by the way- thank you for all of your hard work on this site.

Thanks!

[Ocklawaha]

I had no idea McCoys Creek was that far north! Anyone have a map showing the original route?

McCoy's Creek once had a rather vast salt marsh...  The original road's that passed through went along the approximate route of Myrtle Ave
from The Brick Church southward, crossing McCoy's on a long fill and plank wooden bridge.

When the Jacksonville Terminal was built it required nearly 300 pilings driven about 75-100' deep for support. The yards themselves flooded terribly so after the 7-8 tropical storm in a row:

June 16, 1893 – Saint Marks is struck by a tropical storm. Moderate winds and rainfall occurs throughout the northeastern portion of the state, including a total of 1.51 inches in Jacksonville.
August 27, 1893 – The Sea Islands Hurricane parallels the eastern coastline as a major hurricane, producing winds in excess of 75 mph (120 km/h) near the coast. The winds destroy nine cottages in Mayport.
rallels the coastline about 60 miles (95 km) offshore. The storm tide was high enough that at low tide, it was at the position of the normal high tide mark. The tide caused street flooding in Saint Augustine, with heavy damage reported in Mayport.
September 29, 1896 – The fourth storm makes landfall as a major hurricane on Yankeetown with a pressure of 960 mbar. Strong winds downed hundreds of trees and caused severe damage amounting to $1.5 million (1896 USD, $36 million 2006 USD).[63] Multiple deaths were reported in the state.
October 2, 1898 – A Category 4 hurricane hits southern Georgia, causing severe damage in the extreme northeastern portion of the state. A storm surge of 12 feet floods and damages several buildings along the Fernandina waterfront. A conservative estimate for total damage in the state is $500,000 (1898 USD, $13 million 2008 USD).
August 13, 1899 – The San Ciriaco Hurricane parallels the eastern coastline, producing moderate winds and light damage.
October 5, 1899 – A tropical storm hits near Tampa and sinks a schooner off Fernandina Beach.
October 30, 1899 – A hurricane parallels the eastern Florida coastline, with several locations near the coast recording strong winds in association with the storm. No cases of serious damage are reported.
August 29, 1909 – A weak tropical storm crosses the eastern portion of the state, resulting in minor impact.
August 28, 1911 – A hurricane makes landfall on extreme southern South Carolina, with its large circulation producing moderate precipitation in northeastern Florida.
November 1, 1911 – Shortly after becoming an extratropical cyclone, a tropical storm hits near Cedar Key and causes unsettled conditions across the state for several days.
September 17, 1914 – The only tropical storm of the season strikes near the Georgia/Florida border, producing moderate rainfall and above normal tides.
August 1, 1915 – A minimal hurricane hits near Daytona Beach, dropping moderate precipitation and causing some damage.
May 14, 1916 – A minimal tropical storm crosses the state.
September 13, 1916 – A low pressure area moves ashore near Cape Canaveral, with the worst of its effects remaining offshore. Originally, it was classified as a tropical storm
September 30, 1919 – Moving ashore along the Georgia coastline, a tropical storm brushes northeastern Florida.

The tunnels 'beneath the station platforms' were actually built 1' foot above the high tide mark of McCoy's Creek, Tunnels, stairs, ramps and rooms were constructed at grade then the whole future rail yard was filled with 14' feet of dirt and compacted. The tunnels are strong enough to support the weight of the old Seaboard Air Line Railroad's articulated steam locomotives weighing in at nearly 1/2 million pounds each.

[Ocklawaha]

ICE ICE ICE... and no I'm not talking about the EU's 'Intercity Express' Trains.


Along railroad row in any city worth it's salt... Dropping huge blocks of ice through the hatchways into the refrigerator cars.

One of the major industries tucked along the railroad rows in every city of any importance was the ice plant. Before commercial refrigeration was available and long before home refrigeration or AC, giant ice plants were built to turn out 25, 50, 100 pound blocks of ice. A daily ice wagon made home deliveries to every neighborhood and street. Families had 'ice boxes' that looked something like todays refrigeration but without any mechanical systems. The home ice box was well made and insulated very heavily. So yes, you could go get a cold one, head to the sofa and relax after work.

On a larger scale these important industries lasted well into the 1960's as America's produce went to market on either 'ventilated rail cars' (watermelons and citrus are an example of that) while things with short life spans and needing cold to prevent spoilage went into railroad 'refrigerator cars'. Most of these didn't have self contained diesel/mechanical AC units until the 1960's. We are talking about thousands and thousands of rail cars that would flood Florida, Central California, Oregon, Washington and New England to ship out fruit, veggies and berries. The very product you purchase at your local supermarket for salads, 'ICE BERG LETTUCE' took it's name from the interior of the rail cars that moved it originally out of Salinas, California toward Chicago and New York.

The rail cars were similar to box cars but wood lined and heavily insulated all around. The last 5' feet or so of the interior of these cars were taken up by the ice bunkers. The massive blocks of ice were kept off of the product by a heavy wall of wood slats, usually covered in a heavy gauge wire. This the ice was dropped in, until the bunkers were filled, the cold air circulated through the slats and into the product area. Meat was shipped the same way but in dedicated cars that had high inspection requirements. 

These rail cars were ordered by the shippers, they would be brought into the 'Fruit Growers Express,' 'Western Fruit Express' or dozens of similar companies yards, cleaned and aired out, then chilled with a light ice down. They were then taken to the sidings for farm loading and then after they were packed full, returned briefly to the ice platforms where they were completely filled and topped off. Depending on the distance traveled and what they carried, these cars might 'drop by' to be iced down again in route to their destinations. FGE had a huge facility in Jax... Still does. Another was down by Dennis Street. Sanford, Wildwood, Baldwin all had huge city block sized ice houses for rail cars.

[Bill Hoff]

As a teenager, I used to drive Leon Rosenberg around every Saturday morning to his various properties & estate sales. He was elderly, couldn't drive himself, and his son, Mark, was a friend of my family. He certainly was a collector of "things", and loved to stop at Walgreens (on King Street) to buy dozens of bars of Yardley Soap, with coupons, his favorite soap. The surplus store was quite impressive - all kinds of odds & ends in there. More impressive, however, was his collection of aged liquors in the various closets and garages of the properties he owned all around town. He was so old that I could get away with sneaking a bottle here & there...as a teen that was a big deal. Wish the Surplus Store still stood.

[gypsie2009]

You'll know my age because it took me several times reading and re-rereading the directions on how to post anything. My heart breaks when I go downtown.I am truly living in a time that is cheap,quick,vicious,and driven by greed,rigidity,and jealousy.It's a far cry from the idyllic landscapes of yesterday's downtown, to the now decaying destruction driven by the aforementioned breed.My friend Lucy and I used to spend the week ends downtown.Safety was never an issue in Hemming Park. It was the mecca of downtown. Cohens,Ivy's,Pucells,Furchgott's,La Rose Shoes,Morrison's Cafeteria, and even stores that managed to survive and are still there, were the owners of the venue.The biggest changes were fueled by hatred.The undercurrent, although constant,would manage to control itself just enough so we all got along.You shut-up a lot.There was no question that civility was the first rule of conduct in public.This town became broken because each one of us was the problem.I have seen no improvement or forward imaginative movement towards the re-invention of Jacksonville.At one time we had visionary leaders;those that worked behind the scenes to keep the ideas coming, and the most important part of this mechanism was justice,fairness, and loyalty.The basis was contact in person, a seven day work week, and sixteen hour days.Until your children were grown you had to provide for them with no help.It was expected and a privilege to be a successful parent, and citizen. 

[AviationMetalSmith]

Type Nine Side view-4-1 copy by AviationMetalSmith, on Flickr
Student Project, Jacksonville Prototype
DSCF0623 by AviationMetalSmith, on Flickr
Motivate (formerly Alta Bike Share)
Bewegen by AviationMetalSmith, on Flickr

What Jacksonville needs is a Bicycle Rental, or Bike Share system.
Bike Share Bikes have several things in common , even ones from different cities:

1) The Bike is easy to step over, to mount or dismount, also known as a Ladies Bike. If the bike fall over, it does NOT drag the rider with it.

2) The Frame Rail is heavier than any bicycle available to consumers. This is on account that the top tube (part of a mens bike) has been removed, and the other tube (Metal Pipe) has to carry the entire weight. It may look similar to a Moped.

3) The Cargo Carrier on the front also serves as a protective shield.

4) Good Brakes

5) LED Lighting

• You can NOT afford a bike like this for your personal use, these bikes cost around $1,200 Twelve Hundred Dollars, But you Can Afford the $25 Twenty-five dollars to rent one for the day. The price is high because that's what it costs to make a Bicycle "Road Worthy".

• It is actually Insurance Regulations that control these sorts of things nowadays , the Legislature rarely passes any Civil Laws regarding bicycles.

• Citibike (New York Bike Share) has passed the 30 million mile mark, without any deaths, proving the naysayers wrong.

[Adam White]

Type Nine Side view-4-1 copy by AviationMetalSmith, on Flickr
Student Project, Jacksonville Prototype
DSCF0623 by AviationMetalSmith, on Flickr
Motivate (formerly Alta Bike Share)
Bewegen by AviationMetalSmith, on Flickr

What Jacksonville needs is a Bicycle Rental, or Bike Share system.
Bike Share Bikes have several things in common , even ones from different cities:

1) The Bike is easy to step over, to mount or dismount, also known as a Ladies Bike. If the bike fall over, it does NOT drag the rider with it.

2) The Frame Rail is heavier than any bicycle available to consumers. This is on account that the top tube (part of a mens bike) has been removed, and the other tube (Metal Pipe) has to carry the entire weight. It may look similar to a Moped.

3) The Cargo Carrier on the front also serves as a protective shield.

4) Good Brakes

5) LED Lighting

• You can NOT afford a bike like this for your personal use, these bikes cost around $1,200 Twelve Hundred Dollars, But you Can Afford the $25 Twenty-five dollars to rent one for the day. The price is high because that's what it costs to make a Bicycle "Road Worthy".

• It is actually Insurance Regulations that control these sorts of things nowadays , the Legislature rarely passes any Civil Laws regarding bicycles.

• Citibike (New York Bike Share) has passed the 30 million mile mark, without any deaths, proving the naysayers wrong.

I would worry about possible injuries or fatalities with a bikeshare in Jax without proper cycling infrastructure. You need bike lanes - lots of them - for this sort of thing. And traffic needs to be calmed.

The types of people who use these bikes are casual cyclists and tourists - not usually commuters or experienced cyclists (who tend to have their own bikes). Those sorts of people shouldn't be sharing the road with drivers, if at all possible.

[AviationMetalSmith]

The Police in New York City tamed traffic in NYC, the Police in Jacksonville can tame traffic in Jax...

[Adam White]

The Police in New York City tamed traffic in NYC, the Police in Jacksonville can tame traffic in Jax...

Traffic calming, not taming. That is primarily achieved through physical changes to the roads (whether by closing off some streets or by placing barriers to slow traffic). You can't just do it by enforcement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_calming

Part of the reason traffic moves slowly in NYC (and other large cities) is due to the volume of traffic. It's just not possible to speed through a densely populated city with relatively narrow streets).

[Gunnar]

In the meantime, here's an early 1990s color image of the Rhodes Building, the Army-Navy Store and a closed Wendys. This block is now occupied by the main public library.

Cool, thanks. So it was near Hemming Plaza, then. It's all becoming clear to me now.

I like the library - so I'm not too upset about losing the Army-Navy store. But the Rhodes building - now that's a shame.

I always found it to be one of the more interesting buildings, as well.

Does anyone know why they did not build the new library on any of the already available empty lots in dt ?