Author Topic: Mayor Didn't Cut 147 police  (Read 13335 times)

TheCat

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Mayor Didn't Cut 147 police
« on: May 14, 2015, 11:31:18 AM »
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But the reduction in police officers actually began in the 2010-11 fiscal year, which was the final budget year of John Peyton’s term, according to a Sheriff’s Office budget document and the City Council Auditor’s Office. During that year, 30 police officer positions were cut from the city’s general fund.

Brown took office in July 2011 and his first budget was for the 2011-12 fiscal year. The four budgets enacted during Brown’s term in office have cut 117 more police officer positions from the general fund, according to the Sheriff’s Office document and City Council Auditor Kirk Sherman.

Of those 117 cuts, 41 of the eliminated positions stemmed from the Duval County School Board and Jacksonville Port Authority deciding to stop contracting with the Sheriff’s Office to provide officers at their locations, Sherman said.

The school board set up its own in-house police department, so even though it no longer contracts with the Sheriff’s Office, schools still have police on campuses. Currently, the school board employs 52 school resource officers.

JaxPort also planned to set up its own police department, but a change in state law eliminated the need for JaxPort to do so, JaxPort spokeswoman Nancy Rubin said.

JaxPort has a contract with the Sheriff’s Office to hire off-duty officers, but no longer contracts with the Sheriff’s Office for assignment of full-time officers at the port.

Curry says violent crime is up because Brown hasn’t given enough money to the sheriff.

“Your budgets cut 147 police men and women,” Curry said at a televised Tuesday debate, echoing a charge made in stump speeches and campaign ads.

In four televised debates this campaign season, Brown has never rebutted Curry on the figure of 147.

But a budget document done by the Jacksonville Sheriff’s Office details — year by year — how the city has cut the 147 police positions:

■ The number of police officers supported by the city’s general fund dropped by 30 positions during the 2010-11 fiscal year, which started Oct. 1, 2010, when Peyton was mayor and Brown was still a mayoral candidate.

■ In Brown’s first budget, which was for the 2011-12 fiscal year, the number of police positions dropped again by 41 in connection with changes related to the Duval County School Board and JaxPort. Those positions were vacant when the city eliminated them, Sherman said.

■ Brown’s next budget for the 2012-13 fiscal year brought another reduction, this time by 76 police positions. No police officers were laid off as a result of that cut, according to the City Council Auditor’s Office.

More on Link: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2015-05-14/story/mayor-didnt-cut-147-police-some-dropped-under-peyton-school-change#.VVSlvJOyw94.twitter

Tacachale

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Re: Mayor Didn't Cut 147 police
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2015, 11:33:36 AM »
So he didn't cut 147 officers, he only cut 117. Good to know.
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Non-RedNeck Westsider

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Re: Mayor Didn't Cut 147 police
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2015, 12:12:52 PM »
I'm too lazy to look it up right now, but if memory serves correctly, weren't the majority of positions that they eliminated unfilled as it was?

The didn't reduce the actual force, with the exception of the CCS officers, as much as they cut the capacity of the force.
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TheCat

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Re: Mayor Didn't Cut 147 police
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2015, 12:38:23 PM »
Tacachale,

If the FTU is correct, Curry was more than deceptive with the 147 number and Brown obviously believed Curry was right.

This is the break down, as I understand it, according to FTU:

30 were cut under Peyton
41 were cut from DCPS and Jaxport, which were contracted police from JSO. I call that a side business. So, the money for these police came from DCPS and JAXPORT not COJ directly. You can't blame COJ budget cuts.
76 weren't added ?

The article is a bit confusing. What do you think this means...

"■ Brown’s next budget for the 2012-13 fiscal year brought another reduction, this time by 76 police positions. No police officers were laid off as a result of that cut, according to the City Council Auditor’s Office."

@non-redneck westsider, what you wrote would make sense in light of the above quote. So, Curry is counting a lack of hiring police as a cut in the police force. Plus, he is counting police that have been replaced by DCPS (52) in his number.

Technically, it reads like no police were cut under Brown as a result of the budget.


Either way, Curry embellished. Brown, didn't defend.

« Last Edit: May 14, 2015, 12:42:09 PM by TheCat »

Non-RedNeck Westsider

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Re: Mayor Didn't Cut 147 police
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2015, 12:54:44 PM »
Thanks for that TheCat. 

This leads us further down the rabbit hole and was in the back of my head last night.

During the debate last night, Mike Williams kept referring to the 'golden age' of 2011 before all of the cuts were supposedly made.  The only actual cuts to the force were the CCS Officers, and their main duty was to assist in matters that didn't require an actual badge.  Shortly thereafter, the JSO turned over all traffic matters of state roads to the FHP to reduce the impact that traffic related incidents that were stressing the already limited department.

This is why I dislike politiks.  There's a truth out there, but not a damn person actually knows what it is.  As I've believed all along in this sheriffs race, there's no reason that we can't do better with what's already there.  The days of requesting larger budgets need to end immediately.  And that's not just for JSO, it's for all public departments across the board.

People want to keep relating public city functions with standard corporate business practice and that's great.  Business budgets don't just increase because it's a new fiscal year.  They try to do as much as they can with what they have while still increasing profits.  Spending money on the business isn't the first priority.  Ever.
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mtraininjax

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Re: Mayor Didn't Cut 147 police
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2015, 01:14:16 PM »
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Its kind of despicable actually.

Its politics, if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen!
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Gators312

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Re: Mayor Didn't Cut 147 police
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2015, 01:21:24 PM »
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Its kind of despicable actually.

Its politics, if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen!

Like many issues, if the shoe was on the other foot, you wouldn't be singing the same tune.  But hey, it's my team so anything goes.   

Tacachale

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Re: Mayor Didn't Cut 147 police
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2015, 01:24:05 PM »
Cat, it appears the article has been updated.

According to the article, 30 positions were cut in the 2010-2011 budget. Brown took office in 2011 but this was clearly not his budget, so if it's correct, these 30 are not really Brown's responsibility.

In 2011-2012, Brown cut 47 positions. These were apparently positions that were formerly contracted to JaxPort and the School Board. When those boards decided to end the contracts, the positions were vacated and eliminated. It's possible some of the school officers just transferred to the new School Board department, but that obviously didn't happen with JaxPort. Regardless, it's a cut.

In 2012-2013, Brown cut another 76 positions. There were no layoffs, so the Sheriff apparently handled it by not replacing officers who retired or left. Either way, it's 76 fewer officers on the streets. Plus, Brown also cut all 91 community service officers that year, meaning full-time officers had to devote their time to the minor incidents CSOs formerly handled.

And finally, in 2013-2014, Brown would have cut even more officers (among other things), but that was the year the budget was so bad the Council had to take it away from him. The cuts were only avoided when the Council raised taxes by 14%. This was certainly no doing of Brown, who sticks to the (false) claim that taxes haven't gone up under him.

Curry wasn't being "deceptive" in repeating the 147 number, he was relying on figures given to him by the Sheriff. 147 officer positions have indeed been cut (plus 91 CSOs), but 30 of them are not due to Brown. The fact that Brown hasn't defended himself on these points before this report indicates that he didn't realize there was an inaccuracy, which really just shows what kind of grasp he has on his own budgets.
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

Gators312

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Re: Mayor Didn't Cut 147 police
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2015, 01:27:17 PM »
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Its kind of despicable actually.

Its politics, if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen!

Like many issues, if the shoe was on the other foot, you wouldn't be singing the same tune.  But hey, it's my team so anything goes.

actually I don't.  and this format doesn't really have a high tolerance for it anyways (obviously) because the truth will out.

Sorry Stephen, it's not always about you.. :o   You weren't who I was referring to.

Tacachale

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Re: Mayor Didn't Cut 147 police
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2015, 01:32:32 PM »
Cat, it appears the article has been updated.

According to the article, 30 positions were cut in the 2010-2011 budget. Brown took office in 2011 but this was clearly not his budget, so if it's correct, these 30 are not really Brown's responsibility.

In 2011-2012, Brown cut 47 positions. These were apparently positions that were formerly contracted to JaxPort and the School Board. When those boards decided to end the contracts, the positions were vacated and eliminated. It's possible some of the school officers just transferred to the new School Board department, but that obviously didn't happen with JaxPort. Regardless, it's a cut.

In 2012-2013, Brown cut another 76 positions. There were no layoffs, so the Sheriff apparently handled it by not replacing officers who retired or left. Either way, it's 76 fewer officers on the streets. Plus, Brown also cut all 91 community service officers that year, meaning full-time officers had to devote their time to the minor incidents CSOs formerly handled.

And finally, in 2013-2014, Brown would have cut even more officers (among other things), but that was the year the budget was so bad the Council had to take it away from him. The cuts were only avoided when the Council raised taxes by 14%. This was certainly no doing of Brown, who sticks to the (false) claim that taxes haven't gone up under him.

Curry wasn't being "deceptive" in repeating the 147 number, he was relying on figures given to him by the Sheriff. 147 officer positions have indeed been cut (plus 91 CSOs), but 30 of them are not due to Brown. The fact that Brown hasn't defended himself on these points before this report indicates that he didn't realize there was an inaccuracy, which really just shows what kind of grasp he has on his own budgets.

Except that the direct charge has been that 147 less cops were on the street.  And yet it turns out that a portion of those cops were actually private security at either the port or at the school board.  Those officers were replaced with other security (I'm sure we've all seen the stupid duval country school cops in traffic, slammed on the brakes and sweated that we were about to get busted for speeding only to realize that they're just damned truant officers.)

And the local cops aren't enforcing traffic laws on state roads anymore, so that freed up about the same number of cops that are having to do the paperwork and evidence collection that was being done by the community officers.

Id say that the whole concocted charge smells to high heaven.

I'm sure you would. Either way, I'm not sure many people will find "He didn't cut 147 officers, it was only 117" very comforting.
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

Tacachale

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Re: Mayor Didn't Cut 147 police
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2015, 01:49:08 PM »
^There's been a rash of violent crime in the city at large, if you hadn't noticed.
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

brainstormer

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Re: Mayor Didn't Cut 147 police
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2015, 01:54:58 PM »
This was in the paper a few weeks ago. Anyone know if these facts check out? If so, then complaining that officers were cut doesn't really make sense. If the overall budget continues to increase, then where is all of that money going?

http://jacksonville.com/opinion/ron-littlepage/2015-04-27/story/questions-about-increase-murders-should-be-directed-sheriff

When Rutherford took office 12 years ago, the JSO budget was $247.8 million and accounted for 28 percent of the city’s general fund budget.

During the current fiscal year, Rutherford’s budget stands at $398 million. That now eats up 39 percent of the general fund.

And since Brown has been in office, the JSO budget has increased by $47.6 million, or 13.5 percent.

That’s during a time when other city departments have seen deep cuts to their budgets.

Rutherford often complains that his department has 147 fewer officers now, which is an exaggeration I’ve written about before, and Curry uses that number to hammer Brown.

But put that in perspective. JSO has 3,023 full-time employees. That’s 52 percent of the city’s entire workforce.

Considering the above, it’s legitimate to ask if Rutherford has been using his personnel wisely.

Tacachale

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Re: Mayor Didn't Cut 147 police
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2015, 02:19:12 PM »
This was in the paper a few weeks ago. Anyone know if these facts check out? If so, then complaining that officers were cut doesn't really make sense. If the overall budget continues to increase, then where is all of that money going?

http://jacksonville.com/opinion/ron-littlepage/2015-04-27/story/questions-about-increase-murders-should-be-directed-sheriff

When Rutherford took office 12 years ago, the JSO budget was $247.8 million and accounted for 28 percent of the city’s general fund budget.

During the current fiscal year, Rutherford’s budget stands at $398 million. That now eats up 39 percent of the general fund.

And since Brown has been in office, the JSO budget has increased by $47.6 million, or 13.5 percent.

That’s during a time when other city departments have seen deep cuts to their budgets.

Rutherford often complains that his department has 147 fewer officers now, which is an exaggeration I’ve written about before, and Curry uses that number to hammer Brown.

But put that in perspective. JSO has 3,023 full-time employees. That’s 52 percent of the city’s entire workforce.

Considering the above, it’s legitimate to ask if Rutherford has been using his personnel wisely.

The article gets into that. There has been an increase in budget, but it's still not good news for Brown. Most of it goes toward mandatory payments - most importantly, the pension, which Brown hasn't been able to resolve.
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

Non-RedNeck Westsider

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Re: Mayor Didn't Cut 147 police
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2015, 02:23:55 PM »
Most of it goes toward mandatory payments - most importantly, the pension, which Brown hasn't been able to resolve.

I think you mean that the Council hasn't been able to resolve.  Since they are the only ones empowered to do so.

I think you both mean The City Government as a whole.  Since this isn't exactly an issue that's only affected the last few election cycles.
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TheCat

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Re: Mayor Didn't Cut 147 police
« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2015, 02:43:20 PM »
Cat, it appears the article has been updated.

According to the article, 30 positions were cut in the 2010-2011 budget. Brown took office in 2011 but this was clearly not his budget, so if it's correct, these 30 are not really Brown's responsibility.

In 2011-2012, Brown cut 47 positions. These were apparently positions that were formerly contracted to JaxPort and the School Board. When those boards decided to end the contracts, the positions were vacated and eliminated. It's possible some of the school officers just transferred to the new School Board department, but that obviously didn't happen with JaxPort. Regardless, it's a cut.

In 2012-2013, Brown cut another 76 positions. There were no layoffs, so the Sheriff apparently handled it by not replacing officers who retired or left. Either way, it's 76 fewer officers on the streets. Plus, Brown also cut all 91 community service officers that year, meaning full-time officers had to devote their time to the minor incidents CSOs formerly handled.

And finally, in 2013-2014, Brown would have cut even more officers (among other things), but that was the year the budget was so bad the Council had to take it away from him. The cuts were only avoided when the Council raised taxes by 14%. This was certainly no doing of Brown, who sticks to the (false) claim that taxes haven't gone up under him.

Curry wasn't being "deceptive" in repeating the 147 number, he was relying on figures given to him by the Sheriff. 147 officer positions have indeed been cut (plus 91 CSOs), but 30 of them are not due to Brown. The fact that Brown hasn't defended himself on these points before this report indicates that he didn't realize there was an inaccuracy, which really just shows what kind of grasp he has on his own budgets.

Regardless, it's a cut regarding the DCPS and Jaxport is not the same as a cut to the police force.

JSO services were no longer needed. "Private" entities contracted with JSO and that contract ended.

I don't know that you can count 91 community officers, either. That was funded by a grant the grant ran out. We didn't have the money.

I agree with Littlepage. This whole argument is bs anyway. Rutherford is responsible. So, if you are going to play the blame game you have to look at Rutherford. If Rutherford thinks that more police will reduce crime we should have seen a bit more working the budget from him to make sure that happened.

Curry is pretending he will have something to do with the safety of this city. It's a false argument. He'll only be able to do what Brown is doing now. Curry is not running for Sheriff, thankfully.