St. Johns closer to landing Bass Pro Shops

[thelakelander]

By Karen Brune Mathis, Managing Editor

Bass Pro Shops, the only announced anchor for a proposed northern St. Johns County development along Interstate 95, should find it easier to reel in the site.
On Tuesday, the St. Johns County Commission approved the Durbin Urban Services Area, which encompasses 1,624 acres east and west of I-95, south of Race Track Road.

According to a county official, the agreement approved Tuesday eases the way for Bass Pro Shops.

“It means this would be the landing pad for them to come in and rezone and get construction plans approved and build,” said Darrell Locklear, assistant administrator of operational services for St. Johns County.

Jacksonville-based Gate Petroleum Co. owns the property through Durbin Creek National LLC.

Think of the size of the property as several editions of the St. Johns Town Center, which is the popular 240-acre retail, commercial and multifamily lifestyle center in Duval County at Butler Boulevard and the I-295 East Beltway.

The project includes Gate’s donation of right-of-way for the extension of Florida 9B and an interchange.

Full article: http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=544840

[fsquid]

That's a huge development.

[thelakelander]

....and that's the reason why roads like 9B typically get built. Economic development. The problem is that the public typically bears to capital cost and long term maintenance of the non-revenue producing infrastructure that creates economic opportunity. The private sector benefiting from that public investment reaps most of the profits via land development. The fallacy is that most of us believe the public investment will be repaid through various means of tax revenue generated by the new development. It's quite possible. However, the level of density that we're comfortable with makes that an illogical assumption.

[fsquid]

I'm just trying to fathom any shopping area that I've been to that sat on 1,624 acres.

[thelakelander]

^St. Johns Town Center/Gate Parkway/Tinseltown area, etc. would be an example. Like that tract of property, this parcel will eventually be subdivided and ultimately developed by several entities. Over the course of 20 years or so, you'll see a mix of retail, office, shopping, etc. sprout up on this property once the infrastructure is in place.

[copperfiend]

Hey another part of town I can tell my grandkids that "I remember when that used to be nothing but trees".

[thelakelander]

^My parents say that about the Southside now. They left town in 75'. My dad tells me Jax was a big country town in those days. Claims it's a city now.

[Captain Zissou]

Town center was a forest 10 years ago. In high school I would go on long runs I'm the pine farm where the town center now sits.

[FSBA]

Town center was a forest 10 years ago. In high school I would go on long runs I'm the pine farm where the town center now sits.

Crazy as it sounds 10 years ago the Town Center was a month from its grand opening.

[southsider1015]

....and that's the reason why roads like 9B typically get built. Economic development. The problem is that the public typically bears to capital cost and long term maintenance of the non-revenue producing infrastructure that creates economic opportunity. The private sector benefiting from that public investment reaps most of the profits via land development. The fallacy is that most of us believe the public investment will be repaid through various means of tax revenue generated by the new development. It's quite possible. However, the level of density that we're comfortable with makes that an illogical assumption.

What about St Johns County and all the approved and proposed DRIs?  All the development that got approved before 9B was announced?  It's the chicken and egg concept here. Aproved DRIs develop future traffic, which spurs future congestion, which FDOT manages through highway spending.  What exactly would happen if FDOT ignored the demand, and congestion piled and piled. 

Frankly, it's the growth management laws that you probably are against, not FDOT.  Or at least, it should be.  Stop the sprawl, slow down the regional economy, slow down new development, encourage brownfield development.  Gently though.  Not dramtically. Small changes, with only a few at a time.  Changes like managed lanes on all new capacities projects on interstates, exactly how FDOT is handling all new interstate widening projects.

[Marle Brando]

Man I was really hoping to see a bass pro make its debut in the sports complex, next to an Academy sports or Dicks. Top it off with an indoor driving range, bowling alley and skating rink and it all would have complimented the sports theme going into the shipyards. Of course this would require garages built to feed stadium/retail/and shipyards traffic. Just me wishful thinking, but congrats to St. Johns County I guess..

[thelakelander]

southsider1015,

You do know that there's a strong connection between land development and infrastructure investment......right? All these things go hand-in-hand. UNF, Deerwood, SJTC, Nocatee, etc. didn't just pop up in certain isolated locations over the last +40 years on their own. In theory, there's nothing sinister about it. In fact, we should make sure that our transportation infrastructure investments also stimulate economic development.....since that's about the only way to get some type of return on investment for the public. We just need to make sure our funds are being invested in financially sustainable solutions. When we pigeon hole ourselves into thinking that one solution is better than all, is when we get ourselves into trouble.

Btw, how long have you been in Jax? 9B was on the drawing board for at least 20 years before the first phase finally got funding. It's not the public's or FDOT's responsibility to fund superhighways to isolated farmland because some deceased farmer's grandkids have decided to develop their inherited holdings. Personal responsibility is important here as well. Let these guys pay for their own infrastructure, since their going to be the ones truly benefiting from the development of their properties. However, it's much cheaper to work the political system here. For historical precedence, just look up the Chicago mob's road contract dealings with Governor Fuller Warren back in the 1950s.

[southsider1015]

southsider1015,

You do know that there's a strong connection between land development and infrastructure investment......right? All these things go hand-in-hand. UNF, Deerwood, SJTC, Nocatee, etc. didn't just pop up in certain isolated locations over the last +40 years on their own. In theory, there's nothing sinister about it. In fact, we should make sure that our transportation infrastructure investments also stimulate economic development.....since that's about the only way to get some type of return on investment for the public. We just need to make sure our funds are being invested in financially sustainable solutions. When we pigeon hole ourselves into thinking that one solution is better than all, is when we get ourselves into trouble.

Btw, how long have you been in Jax? 9B was on the drawing board for at least 20 years before the first phase finally got funding. It's not the public's or FDOT's responsibility to fund superhighways to isolated farmland because some deceased farmer's grandkids have decided to develop their inherited holdings. Personal responsibility is important here as well. Let these guys pay for their own infrastructure, since their going to be the ones truly benefiting from the development of their properties. However, it's much cheaper to work the political system here. For historical precedence, just look up the Chicago mob's road contract dealings with Governor Fuller Warren back in the 1950s.

I've spent my entire career working in both types of projects for both private and public clients.  You can say that I'm biased given my source of income, but I believe I've seen the issue in a better light.  It takes 20 years to build new roads because of the exhaustive planning and permitting process required.  I do agree that private finance (Design-Build-Finance, 3P, and other non-traditional financing methods) should have its place in sharing the costs. But its just once slice of the pie.  Should it be bigger?  Yes, of course.  The more revenue and funding, the better.

I've been in Jax for 5 years.  I've also lived in Orlando, and a few other major cities and suburbs in Florida.  This city really is no different, just has a a huge river splitting the city, an ocean,  social inequalities, strong military presence. 

Still waiting to be impressed since it's the Bold City of the South.

[Know Growth]

That's a huge development.

.....a spot that used to be a place to use outdoor equipment morphedd to a place to buy outdoor equipment.

Twelve Mile Swamp state land purchase entailed horse trading,development rights enhancement of Gate lands to the north of the Water Management District project. Years ago. Pappas involved I recall.

[thelakelander]

I've been in Jax for 5 years.  I've also lived in Orlando, and a few other major cities and suburbs in Florida.  This city really is no different, just has a a huge river splitting the city, an ocean,  social inequalities, strong military presence. 

Still waiting to be impressed since it's the Bold City of the South.

Yes, nothing is different here. The political game also influences many infrastructure decisions in the rest of the state and country as well. Oh, and this place hasn't been the Bold City of the South in decades.