Author Topic: Revised Fuller Warren Bridge Plans To Be Released Today  (Read 45136 times)

southsider1015

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Re: Revised Fuller Warren Bridge Plans To Be Released Today
« Reply #135 on: March 23, 2016, 12:37:21 PM »
I'm not trying to "blame" anyone - what's done is done; you can't unspend the money.

Well . . . I think you definitely are trying to blame someone:
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My frustration is that the folks that design these solutions aren't held accountable.

And, maybe you're right to do so. More often than not, though, reasonable (albeit frustrating from a distance) decisions were made based on the money constraint (or some other real constraint) that was pressing at the time.

I would like to see more transparency with these projects if for no other reason to calm down the bitch-and-moan crowd. Maybe FDOT should be required to publish on projects of this scale an After-Action-Report (due no later than 2 years after work has begun, whether or not the project has been completed) itemizing crucial departmental decisions affecting scope of initial project, solicitation of community input, scope of revised project & revisions based on community input, solicitation of bids, and award of bid.

It would allow the public to have a better insight into what FDOT does, how it is constrained by federal/state/local mandates, and how available dollars play into all of this.

Anyone know if such a process and resulting document already exists?

That's a great idea, and I know others, especially the traffic folks, have had the same idea.  I don't the answer to that one; maybe one of the experts here can share.

I will say this, when you add capacty, as we've talked about triple convergence before, unpredictable things change.  Drivers change their commutes, taking the path of least resistance to get to their destinations.

Traffic models are just exactly that.  Models.  It's provides suggestive data on how many cars are where and when, but it's not an exact science.  We're talking about people here.  The human element is not always predictable.

Steve

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Re: Revised Fuller Warren Bridge Plans To Be Released Today
« Reply #136 on: March 23, 2016, 12:45:09 PM »
Drivers change their commutes, taking the path of least resistance to get to their destinations.

Traffic models are just exactly that.  Models.  It's provides suggestive data on how many cars are where and when, but it's not an exact science.  We're talking about people here.  The human element is not always predictable.

I'd buy that in some cases. However, the need for drivers that care come from US17 as well as from I-10 on the westside toneed to get to I-95 North and I-95 South isn't new and hasn't changed since they built this in the 1960's. Likewise, people coming from I-95 North and South to I-10 and then some to US17 hasn't changed either. That's my frustration - this isn't a project on JTB that has a ton of moving parts because of all of the new development around that corridor - these are established traffic patterns that have just grown over the years with Jacksonville's population.

Non-RedNeck Westsider

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Re: Revised Fuller Warren Bridge Plans To Be Released Today
« Reply #137 on: March 23, 2016, 05:01:25 PM »

Traffic models are just exactly that.  Models.  It's provides suggestive data on how many cars are where and when, but it's not an exact science.  We're talking about people here.  The human element is not always predictable.

Fair enough. 

Is the 'model' that determined we needed this remodel, which was essentially a direct flyover from Riverside to San Marco, available to the General Public?
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southsider1015

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Re: Revised Fuller Warren Bridge Plans To Be Released Today
« Reply #138 on: March 23, 2016, 08:02:55 PM »

Traffic models are just exactly that.  Models.  It's provides suggestive data on how many cars are where and when, but it's not an exact science.  We're talking about people here.  The human element is not always predictable.

Fair enough. 

Is the 'model' that determined we needed this remodel, which was essentially a direct flyover from Riverside to San Marco, available to the General Public?

We're a Sunshine state.  You just gotta know what, who, where, and how to ask.

fieldafm

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Re: Revised Fuller Warren Bridge Plans To Be Released Today
« Reply #139 on: March 23, 2016, 08:59:31 PM »
This thread is funny. You have a person with a fiduciary interest trying to stir up speculation.

The reality is, bids were rejected (not uncommon, btw). There will be a delay due to a new advertisement/solicitation process. The multi-use path will not go away.

Carry on

jaxjags

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Re: Revised Fuller Warren Bridge Plans To Be Released Today
« Reply #140 on: March 23, 2016, 10:39:07 PM »
I would like to reply to this thread with a technical response (not seen much lately). Resigning would help a lot. They designed it(maybe unintentionally)  to have "thru lanes" and "local lanes". Resigning 10 EB and 95 SB this way would prevent a lot of weaving. Also the 95 SB thru lanes could have a sign for exit onto US 17. You are actually in the correct lane if you go that way for US 17. I guess I'm too much of an engineer, but resigning would do much to stop the blame game going on at a lot less costs.

southsider1015

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Re: Revised Fuller Warren Bridge Plans To Be Released Today
« Reply #141 on: March 23, 2016, 10:41:00 PM »
This thread is funny. You have a person with a fiduciary interest trying to stir up speculation.

The reality is, bids were rejected (not uncommon, btw). There will be a delay due to a new advertisement/solicitation process. The multi-use path will not go away.

Carry on

I brought the conversation back from the dead because there obviously had been a ton of interest here.  Fiduciary only in that I'm a taxpayer and driver just like you.

Because decisions have not been publicly announced, the speculation was meant to stir the pot enough to get people talking about it. 

mtraininjax

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Re: Revised Fuller Warren Bridge Plans To Be Released Today
« Reply #142 on: March 24, 2016, 04:40:13 AM »
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but resigning would do much to stop the blame game going on at a lot less costs.

Resigning is a huge waste of money. No one really pays attention to the signs, people have SIRI or the new Microsoft chick on their phones and devices to tell them which way to go. The Signs are worthless hunks of steel. Besides idiot drivers are out there texting and driving and have no need for a sign.
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tufsu1

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Re: Revised Fuller Warren Bridge Plans To Be Released Today
« Reply #143 on: March 24, 2016, 08:27:01 AM »

Traffic models are just exactly that.  Models.  It's provides suggestive data on how many cars are where and when, but it's not an exact science.  We're talking about people here.  The human element is not always predictable.

Fair enough. 

Is the 'model' that determined we needed this remodel, which was essentially a direct flyover from Riverside to San Marco, available to the General Public?

sadly, the plans for the original interchange project were drawn up in the early to mid 1990s.  I'm willing to bet the future year traffic models at that time didn't foresee the massive growth of commercial and office development along JTB and Gate Parkway.  Best guess is they also didn't account for the explosion of residential development in northern St. Johns County.

Non-RedNeck Westsider

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Re: Revised Fuller Warren Bridge Plans To Be Released Today
« Reply #144 on: March 24, 2016, 10:38:07 AM »

Traffic models are just exactly that.  Models.  It's provides suggestive data on how many cars are where and when, but it's not an exact science.  We're talking about people here.  The human element is not always predictable.

Fair enough. 

Is the 'model' that determined we needed this remodel, which was essentially a direct flyover from Riverside to San Marco, available to the General Public?

sadly, the plans for the original interchange project were drawn up in the early to mid 1990s.  I'm willing to bet the future year traffic models at that time didn't foresee the massive growth of commercial and office development along JTB and Gate Parkway.  Best guess is they also didn't account for the explosion of residential development in northern St. Johns County.

That's kind of my point. 

I can engineer the perfect job using today's methods and materials.  If that job doesn't go into production for a few years, I sure as hell better look at how I originally had planned it to ensure that my design is still relevant.  I assumed it was a common practice.

And I'm thinking out loud here, but wasn't this project due to 'available' funds in this sector that had to be spent?  In my understanding, this project was being used to clear a budget of remaining funds and not necessarily a priority project.
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Jumpinjack

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Re: Revised Fuller Warren Bridge Plans To Be Released Today
« Reply #145 on: March 24, 2016, 04:19:39 PM »
You are right, Westsider. The way I heard it, the FDOT had money left unused from another Duval project and rather than let it go to any other county, they announced this redesign at the TPO meeting. It didn't go down well  leading eventually to community meetings and redesigned plans. 

Kerry

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Re: Revised Fuller Warren Bridge Plans To Be Released Today
« Reply #146 on: March 28, 2016, 04:08:49 PM »
southsider, I get that roadways are obviously where your bread is buttered but you have a odd obsession with railroading through these highway projects all over the place. I'm sick of this whole notion of "the region needs it" and f@ck the communities that are going to be affected. That's the mentality that destroyed communities when they built the highway system originally. Hell, they planned it that way in the name of slum and blight removal.

And of course we all know this is just going to be another "fix" until the next "fix" another few years down the road. We just completed the thing and now we have to spend more millions to accommodate future growth and imaginary level of service standards. Of course, there's money to be made in all of this.

I'm not buying the "for the region" bullshit. The communities that are affected have faces and voices, the "region" does not. Jacksonville isn't just here for regional infrastructure support. We are an actual city with actual communities and people.

Where is the Like button?  Now that I have lived long enough to see the "highway expansion process" repeat it self multiple times only to end up right back where we started every single time, I am ready to try Plan B.
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thelakelander

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Re: Revised Fuller Warren Bridge Plans To Be Released Today
« Reply #147 on: May 08, 2016, 07:04:50 AM »
Scope cutting will need to occur.  I think that every part of the project could be on the chopping block.

And I didn't mean that it's never going to happen...just not for another 4-5 years or so.  2 years to readvertise, 2-3 years to construct.  Who knows what could happen between now and then.  I agree that it would be a pretty insane act to cut it from the project after everything that happened.

I'm willing to bet you're wrong again.  best guess is FDOT just allocates more money in next year's budget...and the project is delayed for no more than 1 year

Tufsu1 wins....We're looking at a 9 to 10 month delay...

Full article: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2016-05-07/story/contractor-search-fuller-warren-interstate-changes-start-over-after-high
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southsider1015

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Re: Revised Fuller Warren Bridge Plans To Be Released Today
« Reply #148 on: May 11, 2016, 08:42:00 PM »
Sure.  I guess we'll see right?  :)

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