Author Topic: The Duval County Courthouse finally moves forward  (Read 21371 times)

thelakelander

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Re: The Duval County Courthouse finally moves forward
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2008, 10:26:53 AM »
Paul Crawford offered some detail about the desire to use eternal materials like granite and marble and stone, something that would last, which doesnt really jibe up to the renderings.

Architecture preferences aside (for example, I would have loved to see a tower on one block and the rest of the land sold back to the private sector), the most important thing how this bull in a china shop integrates with its surroundings, enabling it to spur development around it that doesn't turn this whole side of downtown into a dead zone at night and on the weekends.  Toronto's City Hall's grounds have been successful at attracting people to the area around the clock.  Crawford and Co's priorities should be focused here, imo, as opposed to worrying about whether the building or others near it are designed with natural building materials or not.
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thelakelander

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Re: The Duval County Courthouse finally moves forward
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2008, 10:30:36 AM »
If the land surrounding the courthouse site turns out like this, I won't complain.
My friend, that's an awfully big "if."  The good news is that we'll be well into the next administration when those decisions will be made (or certainly by the time they're implemented).  And I agree -- if we can look at some best practices from other cities and apply them to the courthouse campus and surrounding areas, that would go a long way to making this project palatable.

Its definately a big IF and based on the history of those calling the shots, its probably unrealistic to think they are ready to step up or even understand the challenge at hand.  In any event, the construction timeline tells me that these decisions will have to be made before the current administration leaves office.
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Jimmy

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Re: The Duval County Courthouse finally moves forward
« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2008, 10:33:22 AM »
You could be right.  However, I typically expect some timeline drift on a project of this scale.  But of anyone paying attention, you'd know better than me.  Keep us posted on ways we can influence the decision-making...
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Steve

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Re: The Duval County Courthouse finally moves forward
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2008, 10:33:30 AM »
You probably wouldnt have lost him on day 17 or something in the first place either.

Correct - you know, I've never met the man, but his results speak for themselves.

konstantconsumer

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Re: The Duval County Courthouse finally moves forward
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2008, 10:46:04 AM »
i would prefer that the site size was reduced and the courthouse was more vertical, but at this point i'm just happy that it's being done.  the current courthouse is a real piece, and it really looked like it was here to stay for a while.
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RiversideGator

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Re: The Duval County Courthouse finally moves forward
« Reply #20 on: April 29, 2008, 11:04:46 AM »
Looks like another KBJ mediocrity will be inflicted on our downtown.  Let's be real.  This design is seriously postmodern ugly.  If you want a neo-classical look, do neo-classical right.  Otherwise, just make it full on brutalist or something.  Anyway, this is very disappointing.  I cant wait to see this every day.   :(

RiversideGator

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Re: The Duval County Courthouse finally moves forward
« Reply #21 on: April 29, 2008, 11:06:51 AM »
BTW, had Peyton stuck with the far more attractive Cannon design, the Courthouse would now be finished and would have been built cheaper than the garbage he is now peddling.  And, I can say this because I did so at the time.  This is really terrible.

Charleston native

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Re: The Duval County Courthouse finally moves forward
« Reply #22 on: April 29, 2008, 11:07:11 AM »
Wow, uh, I thought many of you guys would like the design. I like it, myself. It looks like a larger version of some of the buildings in my hometown...and isn't that what some of you wanted in downtown? This building will add some traditional architecture to the city, and I believed many of you here advocated that.

The courthouse will indeed breathe new life into downtown, and I'm looking forward to seeing it when it's finished.

RiversideGator

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Re: The Duval County Courthouse finally moves forward
« Reply #23 on: April 29, 2008, 11:08:37 AM »
The problem is that it isnt traditional architecture.  It is a caricature of traditional architecture. 

Jimmy

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Re: The Duval County Courthouse finally moves forward
« Reply #24 on: April 29, 2008, 11:22:21 AM »
The problem is that it isnt traditional architecture.  It is a caricature of traditional architecture. 
Exactly!  Listen to the lawyers.  We have to work in the thing. :)  And we all have to look at it.  The Cannon design would have been far superior.
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thelakelander

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Re: The Duval County Courthouse finally moves forward
« Reply #25 on: April 29, 2008, 11:25:26 AM »
Quote
Wow, uh, I thought many of you guys would like the design. I like it, myself. It looks like a larger version of some of the buildings in my hometown...and isn't that what some of you wanted in downtown? This building will add some traditional architecture to the city, and I believed many of you here advocated that.

I'm not a huge fan of making new structures mimic design styles of an era gone by, because today's mass produced building materials make the structures look cheap, imo.  This is why preservation is important.  However, I'm more concerned with how buildings fit into the urban grid and stimulate foot traffic between them and the surrounding areas.

Here's a quick look at the courthouse designs of yesteryear.

Peyton's first courthouse

just about anything is an improvement over this one.


Spillis Candela DMJM with Porphyrios Associates
665,200 sq ft

This one took out the BellSouth communications tower.


Rink Reynolds Diamond Fisher Wilson
704,510 sq ft



KBJ Architects, Inc.
695,267 sq ft

This one looked much better then the one, currently slated for construction.


Cannon Design
734,682 sq ft

This is the one Peyton killed when the price rose to $263 million.

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Steve

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Re: The Duval County Courthouse finally moves forward
« Reply #26 on: April 29, 2008, 11:35:00 AM »
Cannon Design
734,682 sq ft

This is the one Peyton killed when the price rose to $263 million.

Well it's certainly a good thing he did that.

thelakelander

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Re: The Duval County Courthouse finally moves forward
« Reply #27 on: April 29, 2008, 11:41:38 AM »
Cannon Design
734,682 sq ft

This is the one Peyton killed when the price rose to $263 million.

Well it's certainly a good thing he did that.

I admit, while I'm not impressed with the new design, the sprawling layout is better oriented than Cannon's.  For example, Monroe and Pearl Streets both remain open and the remaining blocks along Adams can become decent urban spaces with good urban planning.  If you look closely, the Cannon design had a fenced yard along Adams and surface parking on the west side.
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Jason

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Re: The Duval County Courthouse finally moves forward
« Reply #28 on: April 29, 2008, 11:44:01 AM »
In your opinion, does the new design leave room for future expansions?

thelakelander

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Re: The Duval County Courthouse finally moves forward
« Reply #29 on: April 29, 2008, 11:48:17 AM »
Yes. On the one remaining block of land.  However, the spread out nature of the design kills the possibility of selling any of the remaining courthouse property to the private sector, putting them back on the tax rolls and reducing the overall cost of the project on John Q. Taxpayer.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali