Author Topic: Vitamins... Good for You? Or Good for Them? Case Closed.  (Read 5648 times)

BridgeTroll

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Vitamins... Good for You? Or Good for Them? Case Closed.
« on: December 19, 2013, 08:51:45 AM »
http://theweek.com/article/index/254290/how-the-vitamin-industrial-complex-swindled-america

Quote
How the vitamin industrial complex swindled America

Blame money, politics, and a flawed genius named Linus Pauling

By Peter Weber | December 18, 2013

Questions about the health benefits of vitamin supplements have been percolating in the medical establishment for decades — even as the multivitamin industry has grown to a multi-billion powerhouse in the U.S. This week, the respected journal the Annals of Internal Medicine put its well-heeled foot down.
 
"We believe that the case is closed — supplementing the diet of well-nourished adults with (most) mineral or vitamin supplements has no clear benefit and might even be harmful," the journal said in an editorial. "These vitamins should not be used for chronic disease prevention. Enough is enough."
 
Here's Dr. Edgar Miller of Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, one of the editorial's five co-authors: "What will protect you is if you spend the money on fruits, vegetables, nuts, beans, low fat dairy, things like that," Miller tells CBS News. "Exercising would probably be a better use of the money." The only exceptions are folic acid for pregnant women and, possibly, vitamin D — the studies are mixed on its benefits and risks.
 
Assuming Miller and his colleagues are right — and they base their assertion on three large, recent studies — Americans have been wasting lots of money on vitamins. About half of U.S. adults take dietary supplements, and the vitamin industry has grown to $12 billion a year for vitamins alone and about $30 billion for all dietary supplements. That's just in the U.S.
 
How did the vitamin industry convince Americans that they need to bulk up on vitamin A, vitamin C, various forms of vitamin B, and other vitamins or multivitamin supplements? "Vitamin manufacturers argue that a regular diet doesn't contain enough vitamins, and that more is better," and most people wrongly assume that "at the very least, excess vitamins can't do any harm," Paul Offit, an infectious disease specialist at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, said in The New York Times in June.
 
But much of the blame lies with a flawed genius, Linus Pauling, Offit says. Pauling, the father of molecular biology and near-discoverer of DNA, was "so spectacularly right that he won two Nobel prizes and so spectacularly wrong that he was arguably the world's greatest quack," Offit wrote in The Guardian. Starting in 1966, Pauling started evangelizing about the wonders of vitamin C, making outrageous claims about its salutary effects.
 
In 1970, Pauling published a bestseller, Vitamin C And The Common Cold, arguing that 3,000 mg of the vitamin each day would eradicate the cold. He went on to insist that a multitude of vitamins, including A, E, and beta-carotine could treat or cure a whole host of maladies, from cancer to AIDS. Study after study after study proved him wrong.
 
Pauling really believed his claims, but the vitamin industry had more cynical motives: Money, as Offit recounted in The New York Times. The Food and Drug Administration proposed regulating vitamin supplements containing more than 150 percent of the recommended daily allowance in December 1972, meaning "vitamin makers would now have to prove that these 'megavitamins' were safe before selling them," Offit continues:
 
Not surprisingly, the vitamin industry saw this as a threat, and set out to destroy the bill. In the end, it did far more than that. Industry executives recruited William Proxmire, a Democratic senator from Wisconsin, to introduce a bill preventing the FDA. from regulating megavitamins.... Proxmire's bill passed by a vote of 81 to 10. In 1976, it became law. Decades later, Peter Barton Hutt, chief counsel to the FDA, wrote that "it was the most humiliating defeat" in the agency’s history. [New York Times]
 
So, thanks to Linus Pauling, money, and politics, Offit concludes, "consumers don't know that taking megavitamins could increase their risk of cancer and heart disease and shorten their lives."
 
But surely consumers play some role in the rise of the vitamin industrial complex. Research about the ineffectiveness of vitamins, or worse, has been around since the 1940s, after all. "People over time and particularly people in the United States have been led to believe that vitamin and mineral supplements will make them healthier, and they're looking for a magic pill," Dr. Cynthia Mulrow, another of the Annals of Internal Medicine editorialists, tells Reuters.
 
And the "magic pill" habit may be hard to break, scathing editorial or no. For what it's worth, here's the pushback from the supplement trade group the Council for Responsible Nutrition:
 
The Annals of Internal Medicine editorial "demonstrates a close-minded, one-sided approach that attempts to dismiss even the proven benefits of vitamins and minerals," says the group's CEO, Steve Mister. "It's a shame for consumers that the authors refuse to recognize the real-life need for vitamin and mineral supplementation, living in a fairy-tale world that makes the inaccurate assumption that we're all eating healthy diets and getting everything we need from food alone."
 
At the end of this CBS News report, the featured inveterate vitamin-taker buys the industry's argument and declares that, despite the evidence and her healthy diet, she will continue taking vitamins. She almost certainly isn't alone:  But don't say you haven't been warned.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/H43gHACwY1k" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/H43gHACwY1k</a>

In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

simms3

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Re: Vitamins... Good for You? Or Good for Them? Case Closed.
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2013, 12:11:05 PM »
Well food also used to be a lot healthier and actually have all the vitamins we need.  I've done my own research and talked to several doctors about this, because I too was concerned.  At the end of the day what's best for me is simply one Centrum A to Z multivitamin each morning, and nothing more.  No supplements or extras.

If you eat locally produced organic fruits and veggies each day and full means, etc, you probably are getting all the vitamins you need.  I cannot afford to do so and so much of the bland food I get simply cooks out the vitamins or they were just absent to begin with (modern mass-produced food for you).
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goldy21

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Re: Vitamins... Good for You? Or Good for Them? Case Closed.
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2013, 12:50:53 PM »
If you eat locally produced organic fruits and veggies each day and full means, etc, you probably are getting all the vitamins you need.  I cannot afford to do so and so much of the bland food I get simply cooks out the vitamins or they were just absent to begin with (modern mass-produced food for you).

I am absolutely certain that you can eat a well-rounded, healthy diet for the same amount of money as "modern mass-produced food."  It takes a little time and creativity, but it's completely possible.  And remember, food expenses are just one part of the cost equation.  Not to get overly preachy, but the effects on your health of processed foods are going to be much more expensive over the long run.  A multivitamin may be replacing some of the things missing from processed foods, but it's all of the other artificial crap in those foods that really just cancels out whatever positive gains you make from taking a Centrum. 

Stocking a pantry on a budget is pretty easy.  Tomatoes, onions, celery, garlic, shallots, carrots, cabbage, sweet potatoes, chilis, whole wheat pasta, noodles, lean pork, chicken, and "tough" cuts of lean beef are inexpensive and there are literally thousands of combinations you can create just from those ingredients.  I'd also suggest growing an herb garden. It's super easy, cheap, and the best way to add flavor to food.   Oh, and don't fear butter, acids (lemon & lime juice), and kosher salt.  They are a cook's best friend!

Sorry if this came off as patronizing, because that wasn't my intention whatsoever.  It's intended to be sincere encouragement.  I really enjoy your contributions to this forum.

BridgeTroll

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Re: Vitamins... Good for You? Or Good for Them? Case Closed.
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2013, 01:08:52 PM »
If you eat locally produced organic fruits and veggies each day and full means, etc, you probably are getting all the vitamins you need.  I cannot afford to do so and so much of the bland food I get simply cooks out the vitamins or they were just absent to begin with (modern mass-produced food for you).

I am absolutely certain that you can eat a well-rounded, healthy diet for the same amount of money as "modern mass-produced food."  It takes a little time and creativity, but it's completely possible.  And remember, food expenses are just one part of the cost equation.  Not to get overly preachy, but the effects on your health of processed foods are going to be much more expensive over the long run.  A multivitamin may be replacing some of the things missing from processed foods, but it's all of the other artificial crap in those foods that really just cancels out whatever positive gains you make from taking a Centrum. 

Stocking a pantry on a budget is pretty easy.  Tomatoes, onions, celery, garlic, shallots, carrots, cabbage, sweet potatoes, chilis, whole wheat pasta, noodles, lean pork, chicken, and "tough" cuts of lean beef are inexpensive and there are literally thousands of combinations you can create just from those ingredients.  I'd also suggest growing an herb garden. It's super easy, cheap, and the best way to add flavor to food.   Oh, and don't fear butter, acids (lemon & lime juice), and kosher salt.  They are a cook's best friend!

Sorry if this came off as patronizing, because that wasn't my intention whatsoever.  It's intended to be sincere encouragement.  I really enjoy your contributions to this forum.

I too take a Centrum daily... but the scientists seem to be talking directly to folks like us...

Quote
"We believe that the case is closed — supplementing the diet of well-nourished adults with (most) mineral or vitamin supplements has no clear benefit and might even be harmful," the journal said in an editorial. "These vitamins should not be used for chronic disease prevention. Enough is enough."
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

peestandingup

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Re: Vitamins... Good for You? Or Good for Them? Case Closed.
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2013, 01:51:16 AM »
Well food also used to be a lot healthier and actually have all the vitamins we need.  I've done my own research and talked to several doctors about this, because I too was concerned.  At the end of the day what's best for me is simply one Centrum A to Z multivitamin each morning, and nothing more.  No supplements or extras.

If you eat locally produced organic fruits and veggies each day and full means, etc, you probably are getting all the vitamins you need.  I cannot afford to do so and so much of the bland food I get simply cooks out the vitamins or they were just absent to begin with (modern mass-produced food for you).

good lord.  Amen and pass the collard greens please.

For health reasons, I radically changed my diet about 16 months ago, and as part of that, I use a system of tracking my nutrition intake as well as my calories every day. (calorie counters from about.com) and because of my specific kind of needs, I have a couple of parameters that are strictly enforced: No more than 1800 calories per day, law carb, low glycemic index and completely vegan with the exception of egg whites (very very pure protein).

The point is that I thought I would have to take a lot of vitamin supplements in order to maintain my basic nutritional needs but as it turns out, simply eating non processed foods pretty much obviates the need for that.

Fresh produce, no additives, little to no processed food (salad dressings) and im healthier now than I have been in 10 years.

Yep. Quality of food is #1, not even so much as what the food is, calories, fat, etc. That & exercise. And that doesn't mean hitting the gym every day for hours like a crazy person. That & diets simply can't be maintained by most people, so they lose some weight, relapse, regain weight, and start the process all over again.  I also believe your environment/where you live plays a huge role in things as well. People want pills & goofy diets to transform them, when all they need is a lifestyle change that costs nothing but being aware of it. But hey, there's no money in that. ;)

And I used to blow money on Centrum complete like it was going outta style & all it did was turn my pee a bright neon orange. That's neat & all, but pretty useless in the grand scheme of things if I'm sitting in the suburbs using my car to do each & every task, while cramming my face full of processed filth from a drive through (which used to be my life).

RiversideHusker

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Re: Vitamins... Good for You? Or Good for Them? Case Closed.
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2013, 10:10:16 AM »
I live a healthy lifestyle, but I also take a Rainbow Light Men's One multi every morning. It's around $25 for a 90 day supply, so very reasonable. I don't really feel that it affects me negatively and I take it to fill in any "gaps" in my diet. How are you supposed to find out if you are getting too much or too little of something? Is there a single test that will tell you your levels of all the essential vitamins and minerals?

You can track it based on the nutrition labels, but who knows how accurate those are and I've read that there are all sorts of things that can affect absorption.

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Re: Vitamins... Good for You? Or Good for Them? Case Closed.
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2013, 10:25:50 AM »
I live a healthy lifestyle, but I also take a Rainbow Light Men's One multi every morning. It's around $25 for a 90 day supply, so very reasonable. I don't really feel that it affects me negatively and I take it to fill in any "gaps" in my diet. How are you supposed to find out if you are getting too much or too little of something? Is there a single test that will tell you your levels of all the essential vitamins and minerals?

You can track it based on the nutrition labels, but who knows how accurate those are and I've read that there are all sorts of things that can affect absorption.

I agree with you RH... and I feel the same way.  I eat healthy... but there is really no way for me to know if I missed my folic acid requirement for the day.  But reading the article I posted... the "scientific community" seems united in their conclusion that the $25 you are spend is a waste for you... and a huge profit for them.
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

Gators312

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Re: Vitamins... Good for You? Or Good for Them? Case Closed.
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2013, 10:41:33 AM »
I think the basis for their conclusion in the editorial may be a bit flawed, as one study was on physicians who may be a little better educated on proper eating habits.  The other study had a high dropout rate.  And both were done on 50+ and 65+ participants.   

Eating whole foods, limiting sugar and processed foods, and exercise is the path to a healthier lifestyle, but I think those who try their best to do that while adding a vitamin supplement aren't necessarily wasting their money.

Quote
In one study of nearly 6,000 male physicians 65 and older, participants who took a multivitamin for over a decade were no more likely to retain cognitive function as they aged than similar doctors who took a dummy pill.

But Dr. Francine Grodstein, one of the lead authors of that study, said that since physicians tend to have healthy diets and be well-nourished, the added nutrients may not have made a difference in their cases. “I do think there’s room for more research,” said Dr. Grodstein, who did not write or sign the editorial.

Quote
The results of another clinical trial published in the journal found that high-dose vitamins and minerals did not protect heart attack patients 50 and older from experiencing additional cardiovascular events, though the research was marred by a high dropout rate.

There have been few randomized clinical studies of the effects of multivitamins and minerals on heart disease, cancer and risk of death, said Dr. Stephen P. Fortmann, of the Kaiser Center of Health Research, who led the task force review. A draft of new task force recommendations, based on the updated review, said there was insufficient evidence to recommend taking or not taking vitamins.

But Dr. Fortmann, who also did not write or sign the editorial, suggested that those who buy vitamins may be “throwing their money away,” adding: “Don’t think it makes up for a bad diet, that you can eat a lot of fast food and then take a bunch of supplements. That’s not a good idea.”

BridgeTroll

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Re: Vitamins... Good for You? Or Good for Them? Case Closed.
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2013, 12:26:06 PM »
I think the basis for their conclusion in the editorial may be a bit flawed, as one study was on physicians who may be a little better educated on proper eating habits.  The other study had a high dropout rate.  And both were done on 50+ and 65+ participants.   

Eating whole foods, limiting sugar and processed foods, and exercise is the path to a healthier lifestyle, but I think those who try their best to do that while adding a vitamin supplement aren't necessarily wasting their money.

Quote
In one study of nearly 6,000 male physicians 65 and older, participants who took a multivitamin for over a decade were no more likely to retain cognitive function as they aged than similar doctors who took a dummy pill.

But Dr. Francine Grodstein, one of the lead authors of that study, said that since physicians tend to have healthy diets and be well-nourished, the added nutrients may not have made a difference in their cases. “I do think there’s room for more research,” said Dr. Grodstein, who did not write or sign the editorial.

Quote
The results of another clinical trial published in the journal found that high-dose vitamins and minerals did not protect heart attack patients 50 and older from experiencing additional cardiovascular events, though the research was marred by a high dropout rate.

There have been few randomized clinical studies of the effects of multivitamins and minerals on heart disease, cancer and risk of death, said Dr. Stephen P. Fortmann, of the Kaiser Center of Health Research, who led the task force review. A draft of new task force recommendations, based on the updated review, said there was insufficient evidence to recommend taking or not taking vitamins.

But Dr. Fortmann, who also did not write or sign the editorial, suggested that those who buy vitamins may be “throwing their money away,” adding: “Don’t think it makes up for a bad diet, that you can eat a lot of fast food and then take a bunch of supplements. That’s not a good idea.”

The conclusion may not be flawed... perhaps overzealous?  I think it is great that people can still disagree with a cadre of respective scientists who decide an issue is "case closed".

Another thing to consider... many people take specific supplements touted to help prevent a myriad of conditions... from alzheimers to joint pain.  The conclusion of the study says that if you are taking supplements to ward of some possible future malady... you are wasting your money.
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."