Author Topic: Is Springfield a viable retail market?  (Read 116626 times)

thelakelander

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #75 on: April 28, 2008, 02:30:45 PM »
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um yeah, no doubt.  The fast food restaurants have had thirty years to develop a following.

How long do you think it will take the fast food restaurants to come back to downtown?  Which is easier to do business in?  Downtown or Springfield?
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thelakelander

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #76 on: April 28, 2008, 02:34:49 PM »
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Create street traffic (walking) and support the businesses. 

Isn't this catch 22?  You can't really create street traffic in a construction zone littered with vacant car lots and boarded up buildings?  Its difficult to force people to walk to no where.  What are some innovative ways to create street traffic in the meantime?
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thelakelander

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #77 on: April 28, 2008, 03:30:54 PM »
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Now, be truthful, did you really pay any attention to the buildings?

I did.  But you know my industry.  They are always the first thing I notice.  I would be comfortable in every environment but the last, but I get your point.  I don't think there is anyone out there who would say Main Street does not have a hostile image, outside of the section around 9th & Main were the fast food restaurants are clustered or up near MLK where there are a growing number of businesses moving in.
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thelakelander

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #78 on: April 28, 2008, 03:41:28 PM »
It will take a little more then people walking past vacant car lots and buildings, but it would be a good start.  The most difficult part would be to get people to walk along Main, as opposed to through the neighborhood.  From personal experience, the neighborhood walks offer a lot better scenery and interacting activity.  You almost feel like you're breaking the law walking down Main, south of 5th Street, especially if you try and cross mid block.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

sheclown

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #79 on: April 28, 2008, 08:17:20 PM »
I love Springfield too.  Sometimes, though, it does remind me of high school. 

Wedgies, whispers in the cafeteria, long walks down dark hallways.

Go team.

And, I'm cool.  I can only imagine how the uncool feel  ;D

The unofficial boycotting of businesses is an extension of the cliquey attitude towards residents.  If you want to be a Springfield resident in good standing you go here, but not there.  You believe this, but not that.  You join this club, but not that.

& Stephendare, you keep on caring, buddy.  And thanks for the videos.


Ocklawaha

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #80 on: April 29, 2008, 12:33:24 AM »
Sad part is Stephen, in a city of this size, are you and I the only ones who will listen to or support such art?
It would make for a damn funny JTA-Streetcar parody. Speaking of cool acts, did you ever see the YOUTUBE with Bowiechick doing "Golden Years?" Completely off the wall, but 5 star perfection! Much of it looks like she could have filmed in Jax circa 1922.


Ocklawaha

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #81 on: April 29, 2008, 12:40:01 AM »

AlexS

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #82 on: April 29, 2008, 10:27:34 AM »
Like an
Organic Grocery Store.- Yep absolutely!!!
2 Jazz Clubs.- DITTO
An Indie Movie Theatre.-For sure
3 sit down restaurants with great ratings from all the food critics.-once a week?
9 art galleries.-Yep
2 performance halls.-Depends on what's playing
A Book Shop-Oh YES
A Wine Shop-Mmmm Hmmm
A great bakery- YES,YES,YES!!!!
Three more espresso bars-We have a great one already, keep in mind we aren't Ginormous
An arts studio loft-?????
A five points style furniture store.- ????
A beauty salon.- Decent? Does MY hair????
An Antique store.-We have a couple

?

If they all opened next year, Would that get the support of the neighborhood?

Well the neighborhood didnt.  They were all open 3 years ago.
I don't think it's fair to blame the closure of all these businesses on lack of neighborhood support. I also take offense to the generalized statement of neighborhood boykott as I personally never boykotted a single business.

How many of these businesses really had a business plan in place when they opened which showed a chance of survival ? Did it show they could survive with Springfield resident alone ? What was done to promote the services outside of SPR and draw in additional crowd ? What makes the business appealing to customers outside of SPR to drive here rather than frequent other businesses ?

How many customers a day does a business need to survive ? How many residents of Springfield dine out daily ? Now divide that number by the number of existing restaurants.

As a customer it is not my duty to babysit a business. I will go there initially a few times to try it out. If they run frequently out of their specials, can't serve the signature item on their menu, have inconsistent hours (closed without notice even though should be opened), have below average quality, have unacceptable long times to get the food delivered or the food arrives cold, I will stop going there. But remember, this is not a boykott. It is my right as customer to frequent the businesses which deliver the services I want in the way I like. It's called free market.

Businesses need to put forth their best effort right when they open. You only have one chance to make a first impression.

If you run your business like a casual hobby, show up when you like, don't care if you run out of products (especially eggs for a place serving breakfast), don't pay attention to your customers needs but rather to your own social life, don't be surprised if your business does not make it.

I am getting really tired of the constant whining and blaming things on someone else.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2008, 10:55:25 AM by AlexS »

AlexS

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #83 on: April 29, 2008, 12:17:53 PM »
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How many customers a day does a business need to survive ? How many residents of Springfield dine out daily ? Now divide that number by the number of existing restaurants.
Depends on the business obviously.

20 people consuming an average of 10 bucks a piece will generally do it for a small establishment (that is, to survive)  Six weekdays, 1200 a week, 4800 in sales total.  1200 in monthly expenses (rent and electric) 1200 in stock and inventory, 1200 in labor, and another 1200 in business expenses (taxes, telephone, supplies, cleaning and advertising). If 10 of those customers come from outside the neighborhood (which they do) then 60 customers a week at 10 bucks or 30 customers a week at 20 bucks per person.

So lets say that there were four restaurants in Springfield of the sit down variety.  That would be 120 springfielders a week total for all four to achieve bare survival, providing that 50% of the customer base comes from elsewhere.
How often do people eat out? An average of one out of five meals consumed by Americans — 4.2 meals per week — is prepared in a commercial setting, according to Meal Consumption Behavior — 2000,* a new National Restaurant Association report. An average of 14.4 meals per week are privately prepared, and the remaining 2.4 meals are skipped.

In 2006 there were 1777 residential addresses in SPR. The average number of adults per household was 1.8. 70% of households had no children.
So for simplicity assume that 1777 * 1.8 * 4.2 = 13434 meals are eaten out by SPR residents a week. This of course includes breakfast, lunch and dinner.

Now it would be interesting to know how many meals are consumed outside of SPR. At this point I would venture a guess of 80%. Feel free to correct me here if you feel otherwise. This would leave roughly 2686 meals for SPR per week.

These meals now get split up among the different restaurants we have in SPR. I am not disregarding all the other businesses in SPR but restaurants I am most familiar with as I like to eat, cook and dine out.

HOLA MEXICAN RESTAURANT INC
TOMMY MATTHEWS CONVIENCE STORE
EAST 8TH ST SANDWICH SHOP
CARL'S MAIN ST RESTAURANT
NOSH (9TH&MAIN)
JEROME BROWN BBQ #2
POPEYES CHICKEN & BISCUIT #157
KFC K021005
CHICKEN KOOP WINGS & THINGS
FINE STYLE CARIBBEAN RESTAURANT

Overall there are 88 licensed food places in the 32206 zip code (many of them just outside of SPR) who also draw a considerable number of diners their way.

So lets say the 2686 meals get divided up only on the 10 SPR places. This leaves 268 for each if they are evenly distributed (which as we all know they are not). So some places will struggle for bare survival.

I would also like to challenge the $1200 per month in labor. If you divide that among 5 staff (exec chef, line cook, pass line and 2 wait staff) and want to have the manager/owner also to make some profit I don't really see this happening.

The $1200 for stock and inventory only translates to 25% food cost. Industry average is 30-35%.

I am all for positive thinking and want successful restaurants here. All I am trying to show is that SPR alone can not support them. They need to appeal to customers outside of SPR. We also have quite some amount of established competition here already. And the good residents of SPR also needs to support the established businesses, correct ?
« Last Edit: April 29, 2008, 12:20:35 PM by AlexS »

AlexS

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #84 on: April 29, 2008, 12:38:25 PM »
Well, Alex.  The convenience store sounds like good eatin.
The convenience store is Tommy's breakfast place on Walnut. I heard from many that it's rather delicious. I have no idea why he has a convenience store listed with DBPR. I used DBPR data so I would not forget to list a place.

Downtown Dweller

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #85 on: April 29, 2008, 01:47:30 PM »
Well, ya’ll are just talking restaurants. What about other shops, a hair shop that does all types of hair, some clothing shops, perhaps an organic grocery (Stephen what organic grocery was in Springfield?), something else to help pull people here. I know when I travel out of the neighborhood I go where there are multiple stores I can visit, otherwise why travel?

thelakelander

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #86 on: April 29, 2008, 03:29:40 PM »
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How many customers a day does a business need to survive ? How many residents of Springfield dine out daily ? Now divide that number by the number of existing restaurants.
Depends on the business obviously.

20 people consuming an average of 10 bucks a piece will generally do it for a small establishment (that is, to survive)  Six weekdays, 1200 a week, 4800 in sales total.  1200 in monthly expenses (rent and electric) 1200 in stock and inventory, 1200 in labor, and another 1200 in business expenses (taxes, telephone, supplies, cleaning and advertising). If 10 of those customers come from outside the neighborhood (which they do) then 60 customers a week at 10 bucks or 30 customers a week at 20 bucks per person.

So lets say that there were four restaurants in Springfield of the sit down variety.  That would be 120 springfielders a week total for all four to achieve bare survival, providing that 50% of the customer base comes from elsewhere.

There are a few thousand springfielders, so this would boil down to about 5 or 10 percent of the neighborhood eating out once a week.  If it were a factory or a watch works, or an assigned duty, (joking of course) then the next time you would have to eat out before everyone had their turn would be 4 months. 

The upshot of course is this.  With full neighborhood support as a resident, you would only have to eat out once every four months and the basic bills of the restaurants would be paid.  If you ate out once every two months, the owners might be able to pay a car note and their household bill.  Once a month and the restaurants would be semi swanky.

Once a week, and people would start having to go to rehab.

Its shocking isnt it?


I hear you, believe me, I really do.  I just don't think the "SPAR" types ("SPAR types" this tells me the target of discussion revolves around a certain segment of Springfield's population, instead of the whole neighborhood) are large enough in numbers to have a meaningful impact. 

Here are some areas I believe, that limit their impact based on the quoted comment above, along with AlexS's response.

1. There are already places drawing some of their support (Burrito Gallery, Chew, London Bridge, etc.), however, they are scattered throughout the neighborhood and urban core.

2. Even the places you discounted like Jim Brown's, Carl's, Chan's, Subway, KFC and the Caribbean restaurants north of 14th, pull in some of those meals (not all "SPAR types" boycott these places).  For the numbers posted to work, are you calling for the "SPAR types" supporting these places on an occassional basis to stop and support those that rely only on the neighborhood, regardless of if its a product a specific person wants or not?

3. The "SPAR types" (vocal, but small in numbers) don't all have the same likes.  No matter what comes on line, a portion will support it, but another portion may not for a variety of reasons.  In this essence, Springfield is no different from any other neighborhood in the city. 

Ex. I'll eat at a place serving decent meals for under $10/person, moreso then I will one that will cost me $20.  Its nothing against the establishment or its owner, it deals more with how it affects my personal budget.  I eat at Ruth Chris once a year because I can't justify paying so much for a meal on a regular basis, but that doesn't mean I'm boycotting them.  On the other hand, someone else may have the reverse opinion of both establishments, but want the same as me as far as a commercial district goes......vibrancy.

Until Springfield densifies (and its got a long way to go, imo), new businesses stand a much better chance of appealing to a larger urban core area demographic (ex. like The Pearl, Shantytown, Three Layers, etc.), which in the process will also pull in some "SPAR types" support along the way.

So to me, a major key would be finding a way to make the area have an "unique sense of place and feel" that appeals, not only to nearby residents (both black and white/rich and poor), but the urban core neighbors and visitors as well.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2008, 03:31:48 PM by thelakelander »
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RiversideGator

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #87 on: April 29, 2008, 06:41:25 PM »
What about the idea of creating your "community of place" at 8th and Walnut?

downtownparks

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #88 on: April 29, 2008, 07:18:02 PM »
Am I the only one who takes great offense to "SPAR types"?  Why not change that to any other group of people (minority, ect) and see how it flies.

To presuppose an ENTIRE COMMUNITY is in on some boycott is ludicrous when every knows that the its hard to get two Springfielders to agree on what day it is. We are tight knit in many ways, but in other ways its hard to stop us from eating our own young. Think great big family on thanksgiving day.

My point is, aside from some small groups of friends, there has never been an organized, or otherwise accepted boycott of anything. Most people dont like the pawn shops because so many of us have later found our personal belongings in many of them (more than just the one) Its also hard to support businesses when, as Alex said, they run out of the very thing you expect them to have on a regular basis. If you are a sandwich shop, you should probably have bread. A-Z almost went out of business when Main St was torn up, but last I heard they arent going anywhere. Chans, every time I go in there I see a neighbor. Hell, even the few times I have gone into the Quality Foods (I dont go there because they seldom have everything I want/need, and I have never liked how the place smelled or felt) I have seen neighbors there shopping.

People in the neighborhood will give anything a try, and even give it a few times to get it right. However once you have burned us, I don't care how many times you repackage it, it just wont fly until its proven to work.

AlexS

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #89 on: April 30, 2008, 09:07:11 AM »
Stephen, are you so impressed with your message that you are now quoting yourself ?