Author Topic: Is Springfield a viable retail market?  (Read 116648 times)

sheclown

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #60 on: April 24, 2008, 03:41:37 PM »


I was referring to class which cannot be purchased, not middle, working or upper class. 
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I was just kidding, sort of.  It's a subtle thing, sort of.  But a problem. And a problem for me too.

I had a family living next to me from the mountains of New York state.  There were no less than 10 of them, loosely related, living in a 1000 square foot house.  The called each other every foul name they could think of, often chasing each other down the street to do so.  They had three of the sweetest little girls, with curly blonde hair, who listened to their father's mouth.  (And yes, I at times asked him to think about the language he used in front of his little ones).  All of the family knew our names, our pets' names, asked about our day, kept us company outside (okay bummed cigarettes too).  They helped out whenever we were doing anything.  Mowed our lawn if they had the lawn mower out and when our dog died out on the street, came to us, actually crying, and said "that is so messed up."  I'll never forget the sadness they felt on our behalf.

I am ashamed to say, I never could remember their names...

I was a little relieved when they moved, but I know that they had a right to run up and down the street and cuss at each other if they felt like it.  They also loudly made up  :) and loudly loved each other.  If they felt like living their lives that way, what right do I have to demand they conform to my white middle class notions of correct behavior?  At times I was uncomfortable, often entertained, often disgusted, but I love that I live in a neighborhood which has such characters in it.  I would be bored beyond tears in a gated community with manicured lawns. 

And BTW, they had absolutely no class or good taste.

nvrenuf

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #61 on: April 24, 2008, 06:08:49 PM »
Stephen, as part of your block by block plan...

For the pawn shops could it be as simple as maintaining the legit business but changing the name to something that does not imply "pawn shop"? IE: Music Matters, All Things Eclectic, This & That, You Want It We Got It...okay business names may not be my forte but you get the idea.

They could all have a "We Buy & Sell" sign in the window but hopefully lose the pawn shop stigma.

RiversideGator

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #62 on: April 24, 2008, 06:37:55 PM »
I was just kidding, sort of.  It's a subtle thing, sort of.  But a problem. And a problem for me too.

I had a family living next to me from the mountains of New York state.  There were no less than 10 of them, loosely related, living in a 1000 square foot house.  The called each other every foul name they could think of, often chasing each other down the street to do so.  They had three of the sweetest little girls, with curly blonde hair, who listened to their father's mouth.  (And yes, I at times asked him to think about the language he used in front of his little ones).  All of the family knew our names, our pets' names, asked about our day, kept us company outside (okay bummed cigarettes too).  They helped out whenever we were doing anything.  Mowed our lawn if they had the lawn mower out and when our dog died out on the street, came to us, actually crying, and said "that is so messed up."  I'll never forget the sadness they felt on our behalf.

I am ashamed to say, I never could remember their names...

I was a little relieved when they moved, but I know that they had a right to run up and down the street and cuss at each other if they felt like it.  They also loudly made up  :) and loudly loved each other.  If they felt like living their lives that way, what right do I have to demand they conform to my white middle class notions of correct behavior?  At times I was uncomfortable, often entertained, often disgusted, but I love that I live in a neighborhood which has such characters in it.  I would be bored beyond tears in a gated community with manicured lawns. 

And BTW, they had absolutely no class or good taste.

Who says rednecks are only in the South?   ;D

sheclown

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #63 on: April 24, 2008, 07:29:34 PM »

Of course why not take the imaginary lemons and turn them into lemonade.  Repackage the Pawn Shops as something cool and funky.

That is a really great idea.  How could you sell it to them?  Especially if they are doing okay now?  A facade grant would be so wonderful.  I suppose those days are gone.

Springfield Girl

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #64 on: April 28, 2008, 11:20:33 AM »
Reading this thread is making me crazy. I hope you people are not so naive as to think that SPAR has all the power you credit them with. I have been in Springfield for a while now and am pretty involved. I have only heard of one threatened boycott of a business and it was a last ditch attempt by a small group of neighbors to get a business owner to quit renting to sex offenders. For every one person who is involved with SPAR in Springfield there are probably at least 50 others who aren't. We are a very diverse neighborhood of individuals that have different likes, interests and needs. There is not some retarded conspiracy going on. As individuals we are busy living our lives and trying to effect small changes where we can to better our neighborhood. I have no power to force businesses to beautify their properties or sell a product I am interested in but I do have the power to not patronize them. Not needing or desiring the services of a business is not same as boycotting them. The only thing that is constant is change and businesses must adapt to their changing clientel to succeed, not the other way around.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2008, 11:23:58 AM by Springfield Girl »

thelakelander

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #65 on: April 28, 2008, 11:25:45 AM »
Good post.  I also don't agree that any neighborhood group in Springfield has that type of power. 
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Downtown Dweller

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #66 on: April 28, 2008, 11:36:30 AM »
Well, to be fair Main ST., the street itself looks bad right now, but that is because they are supposed to be fixing and beautifying it. I am hopeful that once this work is complete we will have much more commercial interest. After the Eastside of 8th was upgraded we got the coffee shop, karate school, and I am hearing a pizza or Italian restaurant is looking at 7th and Walnut. Some of the key commercial properties are owned by individuals who are investing for the long-term, asking rent and/or sales prices based on future value speculation. Steps are being taken to improve our commercial corridors; we just have to be a little patient. I agree with Springfield Girl in that I won’t patronize a business I don’t feel comfortable at (the renting to pedophiles) or that I don’t need, want, or like the goods/services being offered. Isn’t that how the market works? If no one wants your product or likes you store, or service, or prices you change or go out of business. I have no problem voicing my desires to businesses, it is their option to respond or not. I am still very hopeful that once all the construction is done we will start seeing great improvements in our commercial offerings.

thelakelander

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #67 on: April 28, 2008, 11:48:45 AM »
Good post.  I also don't agree that any neighborhood group in Springfield has that type of power. 
Every Merchant.  EVERY merchant had the same opinion.   Even Jerome Brown.  The support that should have been there from the neighborhood wasnt.  I don't say this out of bitterness or anything other than observation, and as I said, for Boomtown, this wasnt a problem.

What type of support are the businesses looking for?  Marketing, promotion, monetary, etc.?   How can a group like SAMBA grow to help these businesses, in your opinion?

Also, what's the true population of Springfield and how does it demographically compare with the neighborhood when you came in years ago?
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Downtown Dweller

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #68 on: April 28, 2008, 11:50:33 AM »
Like an
Organic Grocery Store.- Yep absolutely!!!
2 Jazz Clubs.- DITTO
An Indie Movie Theatre.-For sure
3 sit down restaurants with great ratings from all the food critics.-once a week?
9 art galleries.-Yep
2 performance halls.-Depends on what's playing
A Book Shop-Oh YES
A Wine Shop-Mmmm Hmmm
A great bakery- YES,YES,YES!!!!
Three more espresso bars-We have a great one already, keep in mind we aren't Ginormous
An arts studio loft-?????
A five points style furniture store.- ????
A beauty salon.- Decent? Does MY hair????
An Antique store.-We have a couple

?

If they all opened next year, Would that get the support of the neighborhood?

thelakelander

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #69 on: April 28, 2008, 11:53:33 AM »
Like an
Organic Grocery Store.
2 Jazz Clubs.
An Indie Movie Theatre.
3 sit down restaurants with great ratings from all the food critics.
9 art galleries.
2 performance halls.
A Book Shop
A Wine Shop
A great bakery
Three more espresso bars
An arts studio loft
A five points style furniture store.
A beauty salon.
An Antique store.

?

If they all opened next year, Would that get the support of the neighborhood?

Would a portion of this answer rely on the level of service or quality of product given?  For example, Main Street Bakery failed, but Chan's, Shantytown and the Pearl have succeeded.

Can the neighborhood support this many establishments without additional support from those living outside of the historic district's boundaries?  Is the population density high enough for all of these businesses to rely on neighborhood only?
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

thelakelander

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #70 on: April 28, 2008, 12:04:54 PM »
ah, thanks for the reminder, Lake.  The French Pantry did daily deliveries for 6 months to the front of Boomtown.  Some of the best bread to be made in the city of Jacksonville.  We were their only northside drop off.  But I forgot about the Main Street Bakery phase of that building.

Let me ammend that list:

Like an
Organic Grocery Store.
2 Jazz Clubs.
An Indie Movie Theatre.
3 sit down restaurants with great ratings from all the food critics.
9 art galleries.
2 performance halls.
A Book Shop
A Wine Shop
A great bakery
Three more espresso bars
An arts studio loft
A five points style furniture store.
A beauty salon.
An Antique store.
3 Bakeries
A seafood Restaurant and Fish Market.
A West African food store
etc.....



That's a pretty huge list.  I bought my property in mid-2005 and most of this list was not there, unless there's some type of overlapping (ex. businesses opening and closing at 9th & Main and other locations).  Did they close prior to 2005?

Why did the neighborhood and the surrounding areas not support these businesses?  Was it the actual residents banding together and boycotting, city facade grants bankrupting them or shady landlords? 
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

thelakelander

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #71 on: April 28, 2008, 01:06:34 PM »
Rita Reagan aside (you didn't have to throw her under the bus), I think you have to go into detail for someone to fully understand your point of view.

I don't know if the residents ("neighborhood") of Springfield can be blamed for all these failures, especially for Craig's actions with his properties.  It seems there were multiple issues that caused many of these businesses to either fail, succeed or relocate.  How good did these businesses draw from thru traffic and surrounding neighborhoods like Downtown, New Springfield or Brentwood? 

You mentioned a while back that Five Points did not rely only on Riverside for support.  Why isn't it possible for an urban business district to grow along Main that's not totally based off the support of a few neighborhood blocks in a community that's probably half as dense as it was during its heyday? 

Is it possible to work with/promote the existing businesses on Main to help the street fill in?
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Lunican

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #72 on: April 28, 2008, 01:20:09 PM »
The fast food restaurants seem to be operating without any drama. In fact, they seem busy all hours of the day and night.

thelakelander

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #73 on: April 28, 2008, 01:31:15 PM »
The fast food restaurants seem to be operating without any drama. In fact, they seem busy all hours of the day and night.

Interesting.  They (the fast food guys) can't even make it downtown, but have found long term success in Springfield.  I don't if the "neighborhood" has the funds to make improvements to businesses that can't afford to do on their own.  In financial terms, this would probably need to be addressed on a city/state level through the programs offered for being located in an empowerment and enterprise zone.  Where the neighborhood groups like SPAR and SAMBA can help would be making this information better accessible to new and existing landlords and business owners.  However, this is something that is currently being addressed as we speak.  Marketing and promotion are other areas where the neighborhood groups can help.

I'll have to take a look at Springfield's demographics.  At this point, it should be diverse enough to the point where a boycott of certain businesses by all of the residents is not possible.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

thelakelander

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #74 on: April 28, 2008, 02:28:45 PM »
'turf' definitions?  How would you suggest the neighborhood should help small businesses get set up financially?  
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali