Author Topic: Is Springfield a viable retail market?  (Read 116628 times)

thelakelander

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #30 on: April 23, 2008, 09:12:13 PM »
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Well lake, dont rely on all this confounded theory.

After all, it should be a shoe in.

Make a few calls and get some shops lined up.

Let me know how it turns out.

No need, I'll ask just the guys at Jim Brown's the next time I pick up a rib sandwich or a two piece chicken dinner at Popeyes on if they are being put out of business by Springfield's neighborhood politics.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2008, 09:15:48 PM by thelakelander »
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sheclown

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #31 on: April 23, 2008, 09:14:50 PM »
I miss Pic n Pay

gatorback

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #32 on: April 23, 2008, 09:16:20 PM »
gosh Stephen if it does't make good business sense what can you do? That looks bad.
'As a sinner I am truly conscious of having often offended my Creator and I beg him to forgive me, but as a Queen and Sovereign, I am aware of no fault or offence for which I have to render account to anyone here below.'   Mary, queen of Scots to her jailer, Sir Amyas Paulet; October 1586

thelakelander

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #33 on: April 23, 2008, 09:35:53 PM »
There are two major issues facing Main Street in Springfield and neither have much to do with boycotts by Springfield residents.

1. Main Street Streetscape construction - the street is a mess right now and most of the parallel parking has currently been taken out for construction.  It also does not help that drivers can't make left turns on most streets through the construction zone.

2. Leasing rates & building conditions - Like the rest of Jacksonville, going rates for properties in Springfield got out of hand during the boom.  The high leasing rates limit the amount of mom & pop businesses that can open up shop in the middle of the construction zone.

Those that own the property they are in or have realistic leasing rates tend to do okay.  Any efforts to attract additional retail will need to overcome the two major items listed above.  What would you suggest as a method to deal with road construction, high leasing rates and deteriorating buildings?
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

gatorback

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #34 on: April 23, 2008, 09:42:28 PM »
wait it out if you are strong enough and it makes sense
'As a sinner I am truly conscious of having often offended my Creator and I beg him to forgive me, but as a Queen and Sovereign, I am aware of no fault or offence for which I have to render account to anyone here below.'   Mary, queen of Scots to her jailer, Sir Amyas Paulet; October 1586

gatorback

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #35 on: April 23, 2008, 10:02:21 PM »
I miss the. caddy dealership der
'As a sinner I am truly conscious of having often offended my Creator and I beg him to forgive me, but as a Queen and Sovereign, I am aware of no fault or offence for which I have to render account to anyone here below.'   Mary, queen of Scots to her jailer, Sir Amyas Paulet; October 1586

thelakelander

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #36 on: April 23, 2008, 10:15:44 PM »
The rents on Main Street have tumbled.

Its not expensive anymore, the landlords just want tenants.

Most of them will charge no rent for a few months to allow repairs.

I don't think SPAR and SAMBA are aware of this.  I'll throw it out at the next board meeting and see what people have to say.

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Panera BBs and all of Hendricks Avenue had road construction going on for years, as did Boomtown for three years of operation on Main Street.

Popeye's, KFC, Chan's, etc. still do good business.  However, you can't deny its difficult for a mom & pop with limited capital to start up a business that can't be accessed by half the traffic driving between 4th & 12th Streets right now.

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It really is about the street traffic.

Its the reason that the leases were so divorced from reality.

Commercial Leases are based on the number of potential customers a person might get.

LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION! isnt just an empty marketing phrase.

There is no street traffic on main street.

Fix that, and you fix everything.

There's a decent amount of street traffic, according the Metro Edge Study.  However, it is limited because half the traffic can't directly access business locations located across the street because of the continuous string of closed intersections.

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You cant fix that by boycotting 40 percent of the shops, refusing to frequent another 10 percent and restricting who is allowed in the remaining (empty) 50 percent of the properties.

The Springfielders are beginning to get restless on this issue though, giving credit where credit is due.

I was surprised to find that the residents are VERY aware that a business that doesnt produce activity and street traffic is undesireable.  I was actually proud of the springfielders that all of them would groan and grit their teeth everytime a new tax returns place opens. 

Despite the professional cleanups and the shiny plastic back lit signs, the springfielders are savvy enough to know that these are merely neutral tenants who contribute nothing to the neighborhood.

So there's hope.

Who's presently getting boycotted out of Springfield?  The community is also pretty diverse.  What are the number of residents in your opinion who are boycotting businesses on Main Street?
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thelakelander

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #37 on: April 23, 2008, 10:46:01 PM »
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There's a decent amount of street traffic, according the Metro Edge Study.  However, it is limited because half the traffic can't directly access business locations located across the street because of the continuous string of closed intersections.

Walking street traffic.  Passersby.

There's no walking street traffic on Southside, Merrill or Edgewood, yet they have a good number of businesses.  Just to make sure we're on the same page, what type of businesses are you referring too.

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As you can see from the posts, nearly 100 percent of the residents are boycotting the pawn shops.

What?  Three or four people?  The pawn shops appear to be doing great business, so whatever unofficial boycott that has been assembled is not working.

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Samba is a pretty small organization, Lake.  I dont think there is a single main street merchant on it is there?

SAMBA members on Main Street include Old Time Hardware, Carl's Main Street Restaurant, Fortec Jacksonville, Fresh Ministries, Operation New Hope, Pasco, SPAR and Viva Computers.  Looking at the list, we definately need to go out and recruit more businesses on Main to be a part of SAMBA.

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Ian is about as close as you have.  And even shantytown is considered 'too edgy' by some in the neighborhood.  Not just 'oh that edgy place over on 6th?  Yeah Ive seen it, is it pretty good?", but "That Shantytown is a little too edgy for people who havent seen our neighborhood before, first impressions are so important after all" consideration.

No matter what type of business you operate, there will always be someone who may not like it.  However, that person is most likely not in the target demographic your business needs to succeed.  Thus any boycott by such a person should not hurt your business.  I stopped by there tonight. Shantytown appears to be doing just fine.

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And you have hit on the point Lake.  In a neighborhood with thousands of people within walking and biking range, why should any mom and pop struggle?

I explained before.  High leasing rates, poorly marketed buildings, blighted buildings (how long has it taken you to get your building up to code, for example), a construction zone, etc. all play a role.  Boycotts don't.  Btw, despite a number of people living in the area, it does not mean that they all will be attracted to any business that opens up nearby.  This is where a business owner should know their target market.  Popeyes and Jim Browns do and both pull in walk up as well as drive thru traffic.

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But trust me on the sunscreen, lake.  Walking traffic will cure what ails it.

Sure, all the traffic in the world helps.  The more visibility the better.  There's no argument here.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

thelakelander

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #38 on: April 23, 2008, 11:02:27 PM »
Low blow.  Do you even know what images you're grabbing?  The broken window image is of a warehouse off Liberty Street in the warehouse district.  Anyway, can you answer my questions in my last few posts?  I would really like to know.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

downtownparks

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #39 on: April 23, 2008, 11:02:33 PM »
Lake, You should get Mike and A&A Auto People love him. Also, I can give you the number to the lady who owns the building they recently put glass in at 5th and Main. It looks like she may already have perspective tenants based on the signs hanging in the windows.

I was in there the other day. They are doing a pretty decent job, and when I spoke to the owner, she indicated her problem moving forward was actually the city, not the residents. In short, she was approved for money from the NW trust fund, and it was apparently yanked, so she had to bootstrap the whole project.

Anyway, I personally would support almost any business. I have been in the pawnshops, and I have to say, considering that their stuff is all used second hand, and in some cases of ill-gotten origins, their prices just werent good. Why would I spent $200 on a ladder covered with paint and dents when I can go spend $225 for a brand new one? Pawn shops prices just arent as great as is believed.

thelakelander

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #40 on: April 23, 2008, 11:04:23 PM »
Thanks, Downtownparks.  We'll definately get in touch with them.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

downtownparks

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #41 on: April 23, 2008, 11:15:40 PM »
BTW, I think that Stephen does make one great point with his pictures. Jacksonville residents are easy scared away. If its a little dark, a little gritty, they assume they are about to be jumped at any minute and die. When the reality is, while crime is present, it is hardly pervasive, and I wouldnt exactly call it dangerous. The resident of Jax at large need to recognize this.

In this regard, the night time venues are slowly but surely changing minds. The Pearl brings kids in the way that Milkbar used to on Adams. At the pinnacle of the Milkbars success, it was the ONLY place open at night on Adams, and half of the street was boarded up.

Shanty has done wonders and is active on most nights, and while the bike store and record store in the old darty building probably aren't making money, the landlord has made it workable for them, and as a result, they are brining in more faces for more event. There is a synergy with Shanty, and there is a lot to be said for what you have called clustering.

Even the dreaded 9th and Main, with its ups and downs and controversy, it starting to help that process again. I wont say every meal and every show is a knock out of the park, the bottom line is, people are responding generally positively.



Whats cool is, these places are all working together to make things better in general. In 5 years, the kids going to these bars and shows will remember, as I do of my Milkbar days, not how crappy adams street was, but of how much fun it was. They wont be nearly as hesitant to come to the community, and in general, the perception of Springfield and downtown will be a little more positive.

thelakelander

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #42 on: April 23, 2008, 11:28:50 PM »
Sure Main is no Five Points, but lets not paint the picture that its a wasteland either.










Its obvious through these images that there are places that are successfully operating on Main Street.  Instead of focusing on the negatives of Main, maybe we should try identifying these existing businesses as anchors and finding a way to use the vacant properties as a way to link them.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2008, 11:32:22 PM by thelakelander »
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gatorback

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #43 on: April 23, 2008, 11:48:24 PM »
This isn't the 1st time Main has had that kind of construction, nor is Main the only street to have that level of development to the detriment of the business in the area.  One doesn't have to look back very far to remember San Jose, Baymeadows, Old Kings, Beach, Atlantic.  Yes it put a hurt on the business owners, but heck, that's progress.
'As a sinner I am truly conscious of having often offended my Creator and I beg him to forgive me, but as a Queen and Sovereign, I am aware of no fault or offence for which I have to render account to anyone here below.'   Mary, queen of Scots to her jailer, Sir Amyas Paulet; October 1586

RiversideGator

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #44 on: April 23, 2008, 11:49:22 PM »
If I could play mediator here (it is a stretch, I know), I think Stephen and Lake are talking past each other here.  Stephen primarily wants the Springfield stretch of Main Street to be a cool, hip commercial extension of Springfield which aids the neighborhood's resurgence.  Lake wants this too but he is more interested in the strip being rejuvenated than with exactly what will be the mix of end users and their customers.  Both have good ideas but slightly different goals. 

Anyway, I think there is room for both visions on Main but there is not room for both visions, and Section 8 housing, crack ho's, crazies, etc.  Main Street needs to be cleaned up for the surrounding communities and to draw in suburbanites IMO.  It will have to be a gradual process involving a lot of patience though.  Unfortunately, in some cases we will just have to wait out these slum lords and pawn shops.  Eventually they will die or retire and the buildings will be sold to someone with class and good taste.  Just keep the faith in the meantime and keep your noses to the grindstones.