Author Topic: Is Springfield a viable retail market?  (Read 117053 times)

iloveionia

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #255 on: August 25, 2013, 01:11:00 PM »
Quote
Step 1 - We admitted we were powerless over our addiction - that our lives had become unmanageable 

Step 2 - Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity 

Step 3 - Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood God 

Step 4 - Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves 

Step 5 - Admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs 

Step 6 - Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character 

Step 7 - Humbly asked God to remove our shortcomings 

Step 8 - Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all 

Step 9 - Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others 

Step 10 - Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted
it 

Step 11 - Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood God, praying only for knowledge of God's will for us and the power to carry that out 

Step 12 - Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to other addicts, and to practice these principles in all our affairs

The neighborhood might start at step 8.

It might help to apologize to Van Winkel, Gloria and Joe, Hionides, Steve Flores, the family and friends of Kiko Battles, Bethel Baptist, the Pawn shop building owners, the eritrean family that owns the Convenience stores, the historic Rooming houses, the owners of the properties who had their investments demolished, silas at the car wash, me and john, Carlos and Anita, etc.

Then go on to step 9 and try and make amends.  There are things that the neighborhood could still do to create outcomes to all of the things they attempted to change by destroying people.  At least take an oath to stop trying to hurt or destroy people who disagree.

Just the simple act of doing these things would be enough to restore jump start the momentum again.  It would at least mitigate the opposite trope that is presently determining the future out there.


Stephen.  I absolutely agree.  The natives need to make amends by apologizing and move forward with a spirit of the Golden Rule.  And while some of those natives may be long gone, the folks in their positions and community groups they once represented need to recognize that the culture needs to be changed.  By culture I mean by attitudes and actions. 


thelakelander

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #256 on: August 25, 2013, 01:14:54 PM »
That's great but we'll need a lot more than apologies to create a market fill Main Street. The same goes for most older commercial corridors in Jax and the rest of the country.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

thelakelander

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #257 on: August 25, 2013, 01:16:49 PM »
I don't think anyone was saying the medians were the only cause, Stephen...
This. I'll provide more detail when I get back in from Atlanta.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

peestandingup

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #258 on: August 25, 2013, 02:15:20 PM »
That's great but we'll need a lot more than apologies to create a market fill Main Street. The same goes for most older commercial corridors in Jax and the rest of the country.

You sure do, but in Springfield's case, I think it will be a good long while before the rest of all that 'lot more' will happen until you correct the conventions---which are still at play.

I agree with this. If the rents are cheap enough, the homes affordable enough, the destruction stops & the neighborhood boards stay out of everyones's business, then people will come. Seems like this was where things were going until the circus came to town & get rich quick investors swamped the place, ran it into the ground, then skipped out after things went south.

Sure, Main will still be a nightmare for pedestrians, but that isn't changing anytime soon. What I mentioned above is your best shot.

iloveionia

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #259 on: August 25, 2013, 02:31:07 PM »
The heart needs to be healed first.  No Band-Aids either.  Real therapeutic healing.  Then everything else discussed above about reviving Main Street and our other viable commercial corridors can begin with a solid base.


thelakelander

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #260 on: August 25, 2013, 03:22:06 PM »
The heart needs to be healed first.  No Band-Aids either.  Real therapeutic healing.  Then everything else discussed above about reviving Main Street and our other viable commercial corridors can begin with a solid base.
I have properties in the Main Street corridor, both in and outside of the historic district. Unfortunately, all the apologies in the world don't help in making their development more feasible. I've been working to get one, right in the core of the district, off the ground for over a year now. The market is simply not there for the amount of cash it would take me to invest to pull it off. Quite frankly, if I'm searching for development opportunities,iI'd get a hell of a better return putting it into my Atlanta-based investment group or potential investment deals in DC and Cincinnati.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

thelakelander

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #261 on: August 25, 2013, 04:01:05 PM »
King is a different animal. It's more comparable toa small section of Main, than the entire corridor, IMO. It's also in Riverside. Springfield has the same problem as DT. There's a gap between cost to do something vs. acceptable market lease rates/yield, ROI, etc. to make investment worthwhile from the private side. I love Springfield but not enough to bankrupt myself.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

thelakelander

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #262 on: August 25, 2013, 04:18:13 PM »
My point is that there's more to this and a lot of it predates the last decade. I'll lay that argument out with graphics when I get back to town.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

thelakelander

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #263 on: August 25, 2013, 04:36:09 PM »
For starters, building conditions are still shitty, getting bank financing is more difficult, there are better investment options out there, the majority of building stock was demolished in the mid-20th century for car lots...
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

thelakelander

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #264 on: August 25, 2013, 04:44:51 PM »
Also, in 1995 I said I wanted to have 7 kids and that I would retire at age 21. In short, after getting more involved directly over the last five years, my perspective has changed.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Demosthenes

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #265 on: August 30, 2013, 12:25:23 PM »
It seems that there are two issues here. One is historical hurt feelings. I dont understand why anyone would want to pick the scab? If the bad people are gone, then the healing has already started. Why pick at it?

Second, any business that wants to survive, MUST draw from outside of the neighborhood. Relying on the small revitalization community is a recipe for disaster, no matter how well received the business is.

There is no way to hold a gun to the communities head and demand they either frequent, or avoid any business. In places where a group threatened legal action, or used code to keep someone from opening, I agree, that is a problem, but in cases where it was a whisper campaign, who really cares? Good services, and a good product trumps all.

I remember some people complaining about the Mural on the side of Shantytown, then there were two serious violent events on the site, and an immediate neighbor has been openly hostile, but Shanty has persisted for 5+ years.

Shanty also pulls from all across the city, in addition to its loyal local clientele.

A business cannot move into the neighborhood, open a crappy business, throw a bow on it, and expect it to work because a few people hope it will. The economics have to work, regardless of how friendly any neighborhood organization is, or is not.

Bill Hoff

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #266 on: August 30, 2013, 12:54:29 PM »
The neighborhood has a number of successful businesses.....most of which are not on the main commercial corridors.

In my opinion, the question isn't whether a quality biz can make it, plenty have, but why aren't they on Main or 8th Streets?

Because they're scattered about without clustering, they can't feed off eachothers success and often go unnoticed by the general public.

Bill Hoff

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #267 on: August 30, 2013, 01:19:11 PM »
The neighborhood has a number of successful businesses.....most of which are not on the main commercial corridors.

In my opinion, the question isn't whether a quality biz can make it, plenty have, but why aren't they on Main or 8th Streets?

Because they're scattered about without clustering, they can't feed off eachothers success and often go unnoticed by the general public.

Part of my question is rhetorical. For example, Red Fin Group recently decided to purchase and move into a cool building on E. 10th Street. They considered at least one property on Main (the Earl Horne building) but the asking price was astronomically unrealistic. That's not a unique situation on Main St.

Thankfully, there are some good opprotunities out there right now. The former 'The Pearl' building and the would-be 'Julie's Urban Grocery' building can both be had for a price that generally reflects market conditions. Some of Van Horn's former lots on 8th have/should be becoming available as well.

thelakelander

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #268 on: August 30, 2013, 01:39:58 PM »
Thankfully, there are some good opprotunities out there right now. The former 'The Pearl' building and the would-be 'Julie's Urban Grocery' building can both be had for a price that generally reflects market conditions.

What's the asking price on these spaces?
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Tony B

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Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
« Reply #269 on: August 30, 2013, 03:18:28 PM »
When we contacted Petra real estate about the Ed Horne building @ 1st and Main we were informed that the owner was in great financial shape and was not motivated to sell the property and that the price of the building wasn't set but it was "well over $1.0 million."  A shocking number as I thinking they would be asking less than $200k considering the poor shape the place is in.

When you consider the condition of the building - that only the only structurally sound part of the building are the outside walls and it would be need to be completely rebuilt (roof, windows, HVAC, wiring, plumbing, remediation of environmental concerns, etc.) that would push the price of the building and property including renovations to 1.5 to 1.8 million.  An absurd price for that property in that location.  No reasonable business person would pay that much for that property and no bank would lend on it. 

The Pearl is a great building (IMHO) at a workable asking price ($220k I think) but it's too small for our needs and a two story business space doesn't fit us.

We also considered the former Boomtown space but it's lack of parking, high price and condition stopped us short.  I think the asking price is $400k? and it is currently just a shell and like the Ed Horne building needs a complete rebuild. 

There is a smaller building on Main that looks a lot like a mini version of the Boomtown building asking price I think is $80k - that one is pretty attractive IMHO. Too small for us but hopefully someone will grab it and turn it into something.


The neighborhood has a number of successful businesses.....most of which are not on the main commercial corridors.

In my opinion, the question isn't whether a quality biz can make it, plenty have, but why aren't they on Main or 8th Streets?

Because they're scattered about without clustering, they can't feed off eachothers success and often go unnoticed by the general public.

Part of my question is rhetorical. For example, Red Fin Group recently decided to purchase and move into a cool building on E. 10th Street. They considered at least one property on Main (the Earl Horne building) but the asking price was astronomically unrealistic. That's not a unique situation on Main St.

Thankfully, there are some good opprotunities out there right now. The former 'The Pearl' building and the would-be 'Julie's Urban Grocery' building can both be had for a price that generally reflects market conditions. Some of Van Horn's former lots on 8th have/should be becoming available as well.