BOMBS IN BOSTON

[cityimrov]

Boston is showing one big problem if everyone uses public transportation - government mandated shutdown. 

Read this "ALL Service on ALL Modes Currently SUSPENDED. Please check T-Alerts, MBTA.com, and @MBTAGM on Twitter for Updates."  http://www.mbta.com/rider_tools/transit_updates/

While catching the Boston bomber is an important cause, there are literally millions of people who are dependent on mass transit to survive.   When a city shutdowns the livelihood of people for an entire day, it can have dire consequences.  I know people who have no savings, no money who live paycheck to paycheck.  If they can't get to work, they don't eat that day.   At least with a car, even old junker, they have a chance of getting to work or calling a co-worker to pick them up.  If the transit option that everyone uses shutdown, they don't eat. 

Unless there is immediate and direct threat to the system or there is an infrastructure issue like weather, I don't think a system people depend on to survive should ever be shutdown.  Things like this will only strengthen the argument for more cars. 

[thelakelander]

The car argument also dies when another form of public infrastructure (ex. streets and bridges) are shut down in emergency situations.  It does happen from time to time.

[simms3]

I think Bostonians will be just fine.  There's nothing like watching a city really come together in time of tragedy and need.  I'm sure people are getting lifts, employers are more than understanding, etc etc.  There's already an app to transport people if you have a car (Sidecar), which is SF based like Uber, but I know from using it that it's also available in Boston...I'm sure people are going beyond the app and just offering rides at this point (again...easier to be social in a city as the recent study shows).

There are other apps like Lyft (ridesharing) that work similarly...I think at points of extreme such as when transit is shut down, people just want to help each other out.  NYC and SF and virtually all large cities (including Boston) have been there done that even before today's mobile society.  Remember Sandy took quite a toll on NYC and it didn't end up being a problem that the subways were down.

Now when you're stuck on a highway and a wreck occurs...that's worse IMO because you have no other options...you're stuck on the road.

[cityimrov]

The car argument also dies when another form of public infrastructure (ex. streets and bridges) are shut down in emergency situations.  It does happen from time to time.

You can't shut down every single road unless you bring in the military.  The major ones, of course, but not all of them.  In Boston's case, the roads are still open, it's just the public transit system that's shut down. 

I think Bostonians will be just fine.  There's nothing like watching a city really come together in time of tragedy and need.  I'm sure people are getting lifts, employers are more than understanding, etc etc.  There's already an app to transport people if you have a car (Sidecar), which is SF based like Uber, but I know from using it that it's also available in Boston...I'm sure people are going beyond the app and just offering rides at this point (again...easier to be social in a city as the recent study shows).

There are other apps like Lyft (ridesharing) that work similarly...I think at points of extreme such as when transit is shut down, people just want to help each other out.  NYC and SF and virtually all large cities (including Boston) have been there done that even before today's mobile society.  Remember Sandy took quite a toll on NYC and it didn't end up being a problem that the subways were down.

Now when you're stuck on a highway and a wreck occurs...that's worse IMO because you have no other options...you're stuck on the road.

Can you prove this?  Will the employees give them the money they were suppose to earn but couldn't because of this threat?   I can prove my answer quite well.  No work means no pay.  No pay means no money for food.  Uber and Sidecar is not cheap.  In many cases, they are more expensive then a taxi.  Also, how can you get a ride when your neighbor and most your coworkers are also completely dependent on public transportation? 

Sandy was different.  That was an infrastructure issue. 

[simms3]

^^^LOL you're talking about an infrastructure issue!  Whether the authority shuts down the trains or flooding shuts down the trains, the trains are shut down!

I can't prove that all employers are forgiving...but I can speak from experience having spent the last 7 years living in cities and working jobs where coworkers used transit (I don't own a car myself).  Many large systems experience delays, outages, they go "single-track" (you wouldn't understand that unless you lived in a city and commuted by rail), etc etc...just like rush hour TRAFFIC with cars on roads/highways, there are issues with transit systems, as well.  People and employers know this.  If you are late to work due to a wreck on the highway, does your employer scold you for something out of your control?  Hopefully not or you're working for an unreasonable (and unusual) employer.

I think in Boston's case, just like in the Sandy case (and just like in Loma Prieta in '89 in SF when both the trains AND the bridges were shut down), people work through it TOGETHER...employers are people just like their employees...many use the same means to get to work, and so they understand (or if they're in a town car now, they were in the trains 10-20 years ago).

[thelakelander]

Regarding the shut down of the transit system, virtually everything is shut down in Boston.  You're not supposed to be on the roads either:

Following a fire fight between Massachusetts police officers and the two suspects believed to be behind the Boston Marathon bombings, Massachusetts Governor Deval Patrick on Friday ordered all residents to remain inside their homes while a manhunt continues to locate one of the suspects.

[cityimrov]

I can't prove that all employers are forgiving...but I can speak from experience having spent the last 7 years living in cities and working jobs where coworkers used transit (I don't own a car myself).  Many large systems experience delays, outages, they go "single-track" (you wouldn't understand that unless you lived in a city and commuted by rail), etc etc...just like rush hour TRAFFIC with cars on roads/highways, there are issues with transit systems, as well.  People and employers know this.  If you are late to work due to a wreck on the highway, does your employer scold you for something out of your control?  Hopefully not or you're working for an unreasonable (and unusual) employer.

Don't you remember the Obamacare debate?  Do you remember the stories employers who reduces employees to 32 hours so they don't have to pay full time benefits?  It's a tough world out there and not everybody is a privileged white collared worker or belongs to a union. 

There's also a difference between a sporadic regional outage vs shutting down an area that has the population of 3 Jacksonvilles! 

Regarding the shut down of the transit system, virtually everything is shut down in Boston.  You're not supposed to be on the roads either:

Following a fire fight between Massachusetts police officers and the two suspects believed to be behind the Boston Marathon bombings, Massachusetts Governor Deval Patrick on Friday ordered all residents to remain inside their homes while a manhunt continues to locate one of the suspects.

Is that an order or a request?  Did the governor order martial law for all of Boston?  I don't remember seeing anything about martial law being declared on the media, just an urging to stay indoors except for that one suburb. 

[simms3]

Cityimrov, I think you're coming at this from a perspective that is opposite of a Bostonian or resident of similarly large/dense/expensive city.  Valid questions, but I don't think you grasp how different it is with regards to getting around in these larger cities.

There will never be an anti-transit push (quite the opposite).  Everyone knows transit's shortfalls, delays, etc.  Employers are forgiving, an occasional "delay on the tracks" excuse is no different from an occasional "elevator was down" excuse.  It's too difficult and expensive to own or use a car...even rich people take cabs/town cars/transit to work because few have the ability to even have parking, let alone pay for it, let alone the patience to sit in a funnel of 500,000 people into 2 square miles before you even begin scouting for your spot.

It's one of those "everyone's in it together" moments/truisms of the urban cities that are just not felt or comprehended by folks who have never had the pleasure of living in an urban environment.  Progressives in Jax are pushing for transit even though it's super cheap, easy and convenient to get around by car and transit is not needed.  In Boston, let me tell you, transit is NEEDED.  When it shuts down, it's an inconvenience that everyone faces together.  It's no different from being snowed in...smart people who are totally dependent on every hourly wage they can muster simply plan for a rainy day.

[Cheshire Cat]

Suspect alive and in custody as of 8:45 PM

[cityimrov]

Employers are forgiving, an occasional "delay on the tracks" excuse is no different from an occasional "elevator was down" excuse.

I have never lived in Boston so it could be a utopia that I don't know about.  I'm just under the impression based on talking to low income earners that their employers don't pay them their wages unless they are there.  Are you saying that employers in Boston are willing to pay the wages for someone who was suppose to come in that day but couldn't?

[JeffreyS]

#2 has been flushed out.

[Cheshire Cat]

Boston Police have confirmed the second suspect is alive and in custody!  This as a much needed backup to media reports which have certainly not been very accurate since this horrible event began.http://www.news4jax.com/news/Police-Marathon-bombings-suspect-in-custody/-/475880/19812484/-/format/rsss_2.0/-/akws4fz/-/index.html

[Cheshire Cat]

Apparently the suspect has injuries and is being taken to a Boston hospital. 

[simms3]

Employers are forgiving, an occasional "delay on the tracks" excuse is no different from an occasional "elevator was down" excuse.

I have never lived in Boston so it could be a utopia that I don't know about.  I'm just under the impression based on talking to low income earners that their employers don't pay them their wages unless they are there.  Are you saying that employers in Boston are willing to pay the wages for someone who was suppose to come in that day but couldn't?

I think people just plan for a rainy day.  Someone in Boston who commutes into the city likely makes $100K or more anyway, and someone who commutes "into" the city would face far more delays and roadblocks taking the limited and highly congested/tolled freeways in versus the train.

A low wage earner trying to get to their Pizza Hut job out in Medford or further might have a car (likely takes the bus, and works "close enough" where they can walk if necessary).  Does that answer your question?  What applies, mentality, convenience and otherwise, in Jacksonville, is different in Boston.  If downtown Jax had a quarter as much parking in it as it does today, and 10-20x the office space, with the same freeway access (typically highly tolled I might add...you pay $$$ to drive into Boston, SF, NYC, etc...and you pay $500+/mo for your parking, that is IF you can get a spot), you tell me what you would find generally easier and more reliable: car or train?  And once you're at that point, you are a big city where downtown workers' "market rate" pay is pretty steep.  Low wage earners who can't miss a day of work without starving are typically priced out of larger cities, or they receive major public assistance (the expansive programs in MA, CA, IL, NY and NJ would give the conservatives in Jax lethally high blood pressure, LoL).  Ok happy hour here I come and off this topic.  Pray for Boston!

[carpnter]

http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_t2#/video/us/2013/04/20/ac-sot-boston-suspect-miranda-warning-analysis.cnn

I find it rather concerning that he won't be mirandized. If I remember hearing correctly the suspect is a US Citizen.  Why risk a chance of him getting off on a technicality?