Author Topic: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium  (Read 45644 times)

cline

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Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2012, 10:04:30 AM »
^I know I sound cynical as hell so I'm sorry for that.  It's just really disappointing that we have such a great plan that has been shelved due to the complaints of a few.  I applaud your efforts though, Doug.

fieldafm

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Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2012, 10:04:38 AM »
Bottom line, the mobility fee moratorium has simply put a little extra cash in the pocket of a few people... that were going to build their projects anyway.  It has failed to work in spurring additional development, meanwhile multi-family construction in areas managed by what's called a transportation management area which still charges a version of this fee has boomed.  All the while, the moratorium has placed an additional tax on the already overburdened general taxpayer at a time when our city can't even afford to mow the grass.

Mayor Brown, as someone who cares deeply about our city... please do not enact a tax increase on the general population so that a select few of politically-connected people can save some money.  That's what an extension of the moratorium represents. 

fsquid

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Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2012, 10:08:49 AM »
I was reading the St. Augustine paper last week and the Superintendent of St. John's County Schools said that they wouldn't be building two new elementary schools without the mobility fees collected in St. John's County.

Bridges

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Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2012, 10:17:36 AM »
Time table of Oct. 10th is fast approaching.  Assuming they are going to push it through quickly, do they have to vote on it next Tuesday or the following Tuesday?
So I said to him: Arthur, Artie come on, why does the salesman have to die? Change the title; The life of a salesman. That's what people want to see.

Tacachale

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Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2012, 11:24:53 AM »
^I know I sound cynical as hell so I'm sorry for that.  It's just really disappointing that we have such a great plan that has been shelved due to the complaints of a few.  I applaud your efforts though, Doug.

No one despises cynicism and defeatism more than me, but I tend to agree with cline. Developers have always been very powerful in these parts, and right now our leadership is pretty weak.

This does not in any way, shape or form mean we it's not worth fighting, or that things will always be this way. It's absolutely worth the effort and the incremental positive change in the conversation that we're already seeing.
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

dougskiles

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Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2012, 11:56:06 AM »
The emphasis of the message needs to be on the positive aspects of the plan.  Yes, there are a few negative consequences to a few individuals in a few locations.  However, even those individuals will see a net positive by moving our city in a forward direction.

As I have studied the Mobility Plan a little more each day, I realize that what it really should be called is the "Vision Plan Implementation".  There isn't anything in the Mobility Plan that isn't a direct result of six (6) comprehensive Vision Studies performed from 2003 to 2010.  We often hear the criticism that our master plans are collecting dust on a shelf.  The reason is because we allow a very small minority to kill the implementation.

Vive La Vision Plans!

thelakelander

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Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2012, 01:22:11 PM »
^Good call.  The Mobility Plan isn't anything new.  Its a method to actually implement several past vision/transportation plans and goals established by this community and approved by the council over the last decade in a fair manner.

Quote
Yes, there are a few negative consequences to a few individuals in a few locations.

It only becomes a negative when one attempts to propose a project that costs the taxpayer and City of Jacksonville more than it helps fiscally.  For those few, who find that their mobility fee ends up being higher than the old fair share fee, I'd suggest taking a look at your site plan and desired parcel for new development in general.  You can reduce your mobility fee costs by taking advantage of the mobility fee's credit adjustment system, by laying out your project in a manner that cuts down on auto trips.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Ocklawaha

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Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
« Reply #22 on: September 28, 2012, 01:45:10 PM »
I say we all go to their evil lair... hold 'em sideways and just go all gangsta on them!














dougskiles

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Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
« Reply #23 on: September 28, 2012, 01:54:41 PM »

Captain Zissou

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Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
« Reply #24 on: September 28, 2012, 02:30:54 PM »
If there is any area of town that is underserved in terms of retail, its downtown and the urban core neighborhoods.  The mobility plan puts the in town areas on equal footing with the 'burbs and essentially opens up a new and densly populated area to new development.  This development may not be in the form or layout that Toney is used to, but if he was smart he would embrace the mobility plan and capitalize on growth opportunities in the urban core before other developers do.  Like Simms has previously stated, if Sleiman moves quickly he can build out the downtown and urban core retail sector and create high barriers to entry for smaller developers.  His time would be better spent fighting for the mobility plan than against it.

Kay

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Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
« Reply #25 on: September 28, 2012, 02:55:13 PM »
Why not get a meeting with him Captain and try to convince him?

Captain Zissou

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Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
« Reply #26 on: September 28, 2012, 03:05:25 PM »
Why not get a meeting with him Captain and try to convince him?

Easier said than done Kay, but that might be worth a shot.  Doug Skiles is becoming a subject matter expert, so maybe I could bring him along as well.  (I know you weren't trying to be helpful, but you and your 'causes' have taken enough beatings for one 24 hour period so I'll be nice and play along.)

fsujax

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Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
« Reply #27 on: September 28, 2012, 03:08:14 PM »
it would be a tough sell, but maybe his eyes could be opened to the potential.

cline

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Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
« Reply #28 on: September 28, 2012, 03:13:15 PM »
Sleiman's too busy counting his money that he makes off of his awful strip malls to see the Mobility Plan as a long term visioning tool. 

simms3

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Re: Jacksonville builders seek extension of mobility fee moratorium
« Reply #29 on: September 28, 2012, 03:40:01 PM »
If Sleiman is so concerned about low rents being a factor in getting deals done without these fees, why doesn't he take the stance that developers literally everywhere else now take?  That is "make it more difficult for others to compete with me".  Whether that means fees, excessive zoning regulation, red tape, winning the lottery to become one of a city's few developers, $1M/SF land prices (usually driven up by other HIGH barriers to entry, not low), etc.

The reason developers outside of Sleiman, a few apartment builders riding the current wave, and some homebuilders,  aren't looking at Jacksonville is because they'll get killed in the first year.  Too cyclical, too much inventory to fill still, too probable that someone else will build a mirror image next door, no oversight, no protection, etc.

This is why "developer" in Jacksonville has come to mean something so vitriolic - people don't even realize that "developers" are often interesting hometown heroes elsewhere with their number one vice being their big egos to build the biggest and best things for their respective cities.

Granted it is true that in most places the suburbs offer the biggest yield for new development.  Making the switch is a difficult one.  The payoff is potentially a lot more, though.  I think developers in Jacksonville like Sleiman are worried that the city will never be able to figure out all the ingredients necessary to build inward instead of outward (i.e. the multitude of ingredients necessary to launch infill development, including but not limited to having the audience, which requires a whole other set of parameters the city doesn't have yet), and so any regulation forcing that inward development or restricting outward development becomes pointless in the grand scheme and ends up a money loser for those developers.  Again - no faith in city leadership and for good reason.
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