Author Topic: The Courthouse is as Good as Dead.  (Read 27836 times)

thelakelander

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Re: The Courthouse is as Good as Dead.
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2008, 10:47:43 PM »
Even if they started today from the drawing board with a set of parameters to fit the budget, none of the bids nor the final awards could be finished in time for him to break ground on the project.....agreed?

Ennis, or any of our architects on board, is there time to reconceptualize, approve, get bids and commence?

They could do a design-build, which I believe that's what they were doing.  That would allow them to break ground on a faster schedule.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

avonjax

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Re: The Courthouse is as Good as Dead.
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2008, 11:55:19 PM »
If this turns out to be true.....
Wow!
Whether it's Peyton's fault or not, he will be blamed....and in my opinion rightly so.
The only progress in Jacksonville since he  took office has been in the suburbs. At least that's the perception.
And as the expression goes.....
This will be another blow to downtown progress.
The perception HAS to be that he can't get anything done with regards to downtown.
I think it is a total embassment that a city the size of Jacksonville has so many empty blocks, especially when that whole area was leveled by the city, and now maybe abandoned.
As a lifelong resident, I try very hard to be positive about our downtown but since Peyton I'm losing faith.
If the courthouse is not built I really don't believe that the seven blocks will be developed anytime soon.


Charles Hunter

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Re: The Courthouse is as Good as Dead.
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2008, 05:56:46 AM »
I forget ... is there a deadline by when BJP funds have to be spent?  I seem to have heard that somewhere, but have no idea if it is based in fact or not.

hank

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Re: The Courthouse is as Good as Dead.
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2008, 08:53:00 AM »
This makes me wonder about a public/private partnership.  1) Why is the city in the building business anyway - shouldn't they be focusing on making laws or taxing people or something?  2) As I've heard it described by some of the lawyers on the board, the courthouse is basically a glorified office building with a ready-made tenant population.  Add to that the support for restaurants, office supply stores, shipping outfits, and cigar bars and you have a mixed-use development opportunity waiting to happen.

Any precedents for something like this?


hank

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Re: The Courthouse is as Good as Dead.
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2008, 11:04:02 AM »
I mean public/private courthouse projects...  Are there other cities anyone has heard of where the courts lease their space from a private entity.

Public entities seem so bad at managing something as complicated as a building project - I'm thinking of ways that someone else could do the project and the courts simply occupy it.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2008, 11:11:08 AM by hank »

Steve

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Re: The Courthouse is as Good as Dead.
« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2008, 11:15:47 AM »
I mean public/private courthouse projects...  Are there other cities anyone has heard of where the courts lease their space from a private entity.

Public entities seem so bad at managing something as complicated as a building project - I'm thinking of ways that someone else could do the project and the courts simply occupy it.

Don't look at the guys we have running the show at how government manages building projects.  Under the Delaney Administration (his point man for these big things was Sam Mousa), they delivered:

Ritz Theatre on time/on budget
Times-Union Center on time/on budget
Jacksonville Municipal Stadium on time/on budget - this one was particularly important, because if it didn't get done on time, where would the Jaguars have played, Gainesville?
City Hall at St James on time/on budget
Jacksonville Arena on time/on budget
Baseball Grounds on time/SLIGHTLY UNDER budget.

The problem is not government, the problem is the people who are doing the work.

hank

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Re: The Courthouse is as Good as Dead.
« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2008, 11:46:47 AM »
This is what I was afraid you'd say - EXPLANATION: people are stupid.

Johnny

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Re: The Courthouse is as Good as Dead.
« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2008, 12:28:57 PM »
I for one am looking forward to a new homeless shelter. Or atleast include a good pocket park that can be filled with vagrants & litter. Thank you Mayor Payton, you rock! Hopefully we can finally change our name to Homelessville by the Summer. Woohoo!

JeffreyS

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Re: The Courthouse is as Good as Dead.
« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2008, 07:31:42 PM »
Lurking around city hall today the gossip seems to be people want to get it done but no one seemed very hopeful. This is not real inside info just gossip.
Lenny Smash

jeh1980

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Re: The Courthouse is as Good as Dead.
« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2008, 11:00:10 PM »
I for one am looking forward to a new homeless shelter. Or atleast include a good pocket park that can be filled with vagrants & litter. Thank you Mayor Payton, you rock! Hopefully we can finally change our name to Homelessville by the Summer. Woohoo!
Uhh,...I wouldn't think so ::). As for Mayor Peyton, anyone can make a big mistake from time to time. No disrespect to you, Johnny, but I forgave the Mayor for this courthouse incident. I don't see a pocket park in downtown's future...maybe a new covention center, or a large mixed use multi-building high rise project(I would definately love to see that happening soon! 8)), or maybe a downtown version of the St. John's Town Center, but not a pocket park. I think that we have enough of those already...so let's all perish that thought :-X. 8)

SWAMP FOX

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Re: The Courthouse is as Good as Dead.
« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2008, 11:33:40 PM »
If the Courthouse had been built first, when BJP monies were newly available, it would be in use now and the questioned expenditures would be whether or not we build a mammoth downtown library or the Baseball Grounds.
The administration spent BJP monies on niceties first, instead of necessities first.  They (Mousa and Delaney) knew all along that the courthouse was a $400mil  to $500 mil project and knew the subsequent mayors would have to raise taxes to build it with the Chief Judge hammering away at them about it. 
They didn't count on the Chief Judge's dirty laundry quieting his hammering racket.

They also didn't expect Peyton to discover that Delaney had picked an architectural firm (Cannon Design) that had never requested a Certificate of Authority from the Architecture Board  to function as a qualified business.  Yep, Delaney hired an unlicensed Architecture firm, despite spending $125,000 on five consultant architect's to come in and evaluate the proposals, despite all five independently rating the same firm as the best option meeting the specs, and despite that firm being a local firm (BJP was sold to citizens as a good way to stimulate the local economy), not Cannon Design!!!  Peyton had no choice but to fire Cannon Design and cancel their contract for cause.  What he should do is seek return of the monies they were paid.

Hopefully, the Grand Jury will get into this once they get the reports from the Council Auditor.  Then there's the parking garages contracts........

RiversideGator

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Re: The Courthouse is as Good as Dead.
« Reply #26 on: February 07, 2008, 12:25:49 AM »
Interesting fantasy version of events, swamp fox (aka Mayor Peyton).  While newcomers to town might fall for this fiction, those of us who have followed this story from day one know that the failures with the Courthouse fall squarely on Peyton's narrow shoulders.  I, for one, do hope that the Courthouse is dead... at least until we can get a real Mayor in office who has the nerve to get things done.

jeh1980

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Re: The Courthouse is as Good as Dead.
« Reply #27 on: February 07, 2008, 01:39:21 AM »
Interesting fantasy version of events, swamp fox (aka Mayor Peyton).  While newcomers to town might fall for this fiction, those of us who have followed this story from day one know that the failures with the Courthouse fall squarely on Peyton's narrow shoulders.  I, for one, do hope that the Courthouse is dead... at least until we can get a real Mayor in office who has the nerve to get things done.
WHOA! :o WAIT A MINUTE!! In all honesty, we all needed a Mayor that can get the job done...but we all due respect, it is WE who put John Peyton back in the Mayor's office. Before we can get a "real Mayor" ::), I want to see Mayor Peyton shape up and do better.

Mayor Peyton, we all due respect(at least I honor and respect you 'cause you're the Mayor), but you knew better than that. Please do a better job.

hank

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Re: The Courthouse is as Good as Dead.
« Reply #28 on: February 07, 2008, 07:38:30 AM »
I don't have a lot of faith that this lame duck will do anything but eat the free donuts.  Maybe its time to talk about Peyton's replacement - our only chance of getting anything accomplished.

jbm32206

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Re: The Courthouse is as Good as Dead.
« Reply #29 on: February 07, 2008, 08:03:43 AM »
While newcomers to town might fall for this fiction, those of us who have followed this story from day one know that the failures with the Courthouse fall squarely on Peyton's narrow shoulders.  I, for one, do hope that the Courthouse is dead... at least until we can get a real Mayor in office who has the nerve to get things done.
I couldn't agree more, there's so much that needs to be done, and so much that hasn't...let's just hope that there's someone out there that's willing to step up to the plate!