Author Topic: Another City Goes Streetcar, Jacksonville Slips Behind.  (Read 48044 times)

thelakelander

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Re: Another City Goes Streetcar, Jacksonville Slips Behind.
« Reply #30 on: August 24, 2012, 05:23:42 PM »
I read your post wrong.  While the entire system did cost more than $5 million per mile, a lot of the extra cost did come from the first phase's Main Street mall streetscape and the last phase being double tracked and being designed for LRT.  The second phase, which utilized an existing railroad corridor was under $5 million as you mention above and I posted earlier.  So we're both on point about costs can drop pretty low if you exclude the bells and whistles commonly tacked onto these projects.
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tufsu1

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Re: Another City Goes Streetcar, Jacksonville Slips Behind.
« Reply #31 on: August 24, 2012, 06:14:25 PM »
Well, Memphis DID build a streetcar system for $2-$5 million per mile

well that's far below the industry standard

the consultancy industry?  No doubt they would prefer a much higher price per mile! ;)

sorry dude, but the consuting industry and the construction industry are different....consulting costs (planning, environmental, and design) usually are about 25% of construction costs....and the number referenced was for construction only...and as noted, was after the first phase that cost much more, as it included the maintenance facility
« Last Edit: August 24, 2012, 06:17:34 PM by tufsu1 »

tufsu1

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Re: Another City Goes Streetcar, Jacksonville Slips Behind.
« Reply #32 on: August 24, 2012, 06:19:00 PM »
^^ I know. I was exaggerating. Still, I think the outer beltway is a waste of money. If Clay & St. Johns want it so badly, let them pay for it themselves.

there is an argument that the users (mainly Clay and St. Johns people) will be paying for the facility itself

Ocklawaha

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Re: Another City Goes Streetcar, Jacksonville Slips Behind.
« Reply #33 on: August 24, 2012, 07:03:44 PM »
^^ I know. I was exaggerating. Still, I think the outer beltway is a waste of money. If Clay & St. Johns want it so badly, let them pay for it themselves.

there is an argument that the users (mainly Clay and St. Johns people) will be paying for the facility itself

Clay is going to pay for it alright. As long as they plan to completely wrap LEE FIELD with an expressway, they'll pay by killing ANY chance of opening an inland port. As it is, theirs is one of the few places in the country where a major airport, river port and railroad all join. Once they kill the airport, the game is over.

tufsu1

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Re: Another City Goes Streetcar, Jacksonville Slips Behind.
« Reply #34 on: August 24, 2012, 10:58:01 PM »

only 25 % eh?

Then the size of the total project would be beneath the radar of the consultant industry.

I get it!

obviously you do not....if you'd like to put your own money forward, than you can skirt the planning and environmental studies...but state/federal guideluines require them...and either way, you'll still need to do design...and generally speaking, that's roughly 10-20% of construction costs.

« Last Edit: August 24, 2012, 11:00:29 PM by tufsu1 »

tufsu1

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Re: Another City Goes Streetcar, Jacksonville Slips Behind.
« Reply #35 on: August 24, 2012, 11:02:10 PM »
Clay is going to pay for it alright. As long as they plan to completely wrap LEE FIELD with an expressway, they'll pay by killing ANY chance of opening an inland port. As it is, theirs is one of the few places in the country where a major airport, river port and railroad all join. Once they kill the airport, the game is over.

they seem happy enough with the access the future phases would provide to Reynold Industrial Park....and the assumption that a replacement Shands Bridge would be higher, allowing much bigger ships

BackinJax05

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Re: Another City Goes Streetcar, Jacksonville Slips Behind.
« Reply #36 on: August 24, 2012, 11:51:54 PM »
^^ I know. I was exaggerating. Still, I think the outer beltway is a waste of money. If Clay & St. Johns want it so badly, let them pay for it themselves.

there is an argument that the users (mainly Clay and St. Johns people) will be paying for the facility itself

Clay is going to pay for it alright. As long as they plan to completely wrap LEE FIELD with an expressway, they'll pay by killing ANY chance of opening an inland port. As it is, theirs is one of the few places in the country where a major airport, river port and railroad all join. Once they kill the airport, the game is over.

That's Clay county for ya.

Years ago my grandfather told me Clay county is "where the bad people live". I think he was right.

tufsu1

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Re: Another City Goes Streetcar, Jacksonville Slips Behind.
« Reply #37 on: August 25, 2012, 10:58:12 AM »
Not necessarily.

Some projects require lots of study but design fairly simple.....others are exactly the opposite.

Ocklawaha

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Re: Another City Goes Streetcar, Jacksonville Slips Behind.
« Reply #38 on: August 25, 2012, 11:59:11 AM »
Clay is going to pay for it alright. As long as they plan to completely wrap LEE FIELD with an expressway, they'll pay by killing ANY chance of opening an inland port. As it is, theirs is one of the few places in the country where a major airport, river port and railroad all join. Once they kill the airport, the game is over.

they seem happy enough with the access the future phases would provide to Reynold Industrial Park....and the assumption that a replacement Shands Bridge would be higher, allowing much bigger ships

So they get 'improved access'  to a decades old, struggling 'industrial park' with a taller bridge, which will allow bigger boats (ships are at sea TUFSU - Boats are on inland waterways...thus the term 'Ore Boats') to bypass Green Cove Springs and go to a truly progressive port in Palatka.  In exchange for the 'improved access' they'll trash the opportunity for a commercial airport - container port - rail connection al la Huntsville, Alabama. Yep, maybe not 'bad people' but the word 'STUPID' comes to mind.

Check out: http://www.hsvairport.org/iic/index.html
And Green Cove Springs has better bones to build on, being next to the river port.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2012, 12:02:01 PM by Ocklawaha »

tufsu1

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Re: Another City Goes Streetcar, Jacksonville Slips Behind.
« Reply #39 on: August 25, 2012, 07:28:32 PM »
So they get 'improved access'  to a decades old, struggling 'industrial park' with a taller bridge, which will allow bigger boats (ships are at sea TUFSU - Boats are on inland waterways

oh I am aware....but Lake and fieldsfm can validate that some Clay boosters at the meeting said they can get "big ships" to their "port"...all they need is a higher bridge.

BackinJax05

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Re: Another City Goes Streetcar, Jacksonville Slips Behind.
« Reply #40 on: August 25, 2012, 09:16:50 PM »
Clay is going to pay for it alright. As long as they plan to completely wrap LEE FIELD with an expressway, they'll pay by killing ANY chance of opening an inland port. As it is, theirs is one of the few places in the country where a major airport, river port and railroad all join. Once they kill the airport, the game is over.

they seem happy enough with the access the future phases would provide to Reynold Industrial Park....and the assumption that a replacement Shands Bridge would be higher, allowing much bigger ships

So they get 'improved access'  to a decades old, struggling 'industrial park' with a taller bridge, which will allow bigger boats (ships are at sea TUFSU - Boats are on inland waterways...thus the term 'Ore Boats') to bypass Green Cove Springs and go to a truly progressive port in Palatka.  In exchange for the 'improved access' they'll trash the opportunity for a commercial airport - container port - rail connection al la Huntsville, Alabama. Yep, maybe not 'bad people' but the word 'STUPID' comes to mind.

Check out: http://www.hsvairport.org/iic/index.html
And Green Cove Springs has better bones to build on, being next to the river port.

With the river, GCS could easily kick HSV's Alabama ass! Looks like the bad people of Clay dont want it, though. Typical short-sighted Clay fools. They're worse than Jacksonville.

an apple

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Re: Another City Goes Streetcar, Jacksonville Slips Behind.
« Reply #41 on: November 13, 2014, 05:53:28 AM »
Yes, I am glad to hear this