Raising your kids in the city?

[BrooklynSouth]

I've only been on this board a few months, but I don't think I've seen anyone write about their kids or issues surrounding raising them in the city. I have a 4-year-old and we just moved to live next to Memorial Park in Riverside where she rides her bike and she loves it. Now when we say that we're going to the store she asks, "are we walking or driving?", which thrills our former New Yorker bones. Has anyone else decided to raise their kids in one of Jacksonville's denser, more-walkable neighborhoods?

[BrooklynSouth]

Really? No one has kids?

[CG7]

my wife and I were raised in Murray Hill and Avondale, and we walked or rode our bikes everywhere. When we got married we moved to Argyle, and our now 15 year old son was raised in the car basically. We moved back to Avondale a little over a year ago, and my son walks everywhere. It didn't take long for him to get acclimated to a mush denser walkable neighborhood. I am just happy we all take full advantage of our surroundings ( That is the best neighborhood to live anywhere ).

[Miss Fixit]

Live with my four kids in Springfield and LOVE it!  We ride our bikes to the Main Library, MOCA and Hemming Plaza and walk or bike to all the Springfield events and restaurants.  We can also walk or bike to the Florida Theatre, The Times Union Center, Art Walk and other downtown venues / events.

We walk over to Klutho Park to play disc golf and can work out down the street at Pak's Karate.

We have a plot in Sustainable Springfield's teen garden with more tomatoes and cucumbers than we can eat.  So we trade with our friends who have eggs and other goodies to share.

My youngest complains a little about the size of our yard, but loves biking in the alleys and taking our dogs to Confederate Park and riding his scooter or skateboard all over the 'hood.  He has a whole herd (?) of porch cats to look after.

We know and hang out with more neighbors (X100) than we ever did in the suburbs; we have urban chickens to entertain us and we can sit on our front porch and people watch any time. Now we even have the Historic Main Street Cruise to entertain us on the fourth Saturday of every month.

Urban living is awesome!

[BrooklynSouth]

These are great! But are we really the only ones with kids on MetroJacksonville.com? It seems like a lot of the people posting here are singles. I grew up in DC near Rock Creek Park, and I lived on my bike and we took the Metro subways to go the free Smithsonian museums. Then my family moved to a new suburb in Herndon, VA, and I never really adjusted to the lonely, car-centric lifestyle. When I lived in Brooklyn, I experienced the platonic ideal of a city (Walkscore of 99!) and now my wife and I are trying to find something close to that in Jacksonville for our daughter, if we can.

[thelakelander]

I have two boys, ages 10 & 8.  I'm working to move to Springfield now.  I believe urban areas are better for kids as well.  I considered moving to New Orleans and Washington, DC a few years ago and a strong draw as the cultural institutions and green spaces.  Nearly everything outside of the core area of Jacksonville (schools, parks, libraries, etc.) requires a drive to access.  Neighborhoods tend to be isolated gated subdivisions, which effectively limit areas in which children can access without having to cross a six lane highway.  I grew up in a smaller town (pop. 30,000) but enjoyed being able to ride my bike or walk to other blocks in the neighborhood to play with other kids my age.  By the same token, there were neighborhood parks, libraries, corner stores, etc. that didn't require me having my parents drive me around town to access. I remember one time getting in trouble because I rode my bike to the next city, five miles away.  However, at least there was a multi-use bike path that allowed me to ride four of those miles without crossing a 4 or 6 lane street. 

[simms3]

City living for kids probably has tons of advantages, but believe me when I say my friends who grew up IN cities grew up VERY fast.  You're definitely not able to shelter your kids from the "evils" of the world in the middle of a city.  Springfield is probably no exception to that rule, but there is no "city" environment in Jacksonville to the extent that I'm referring to.  You're 14 year old is not going to be the sheltered innocent 14 year old you might hope for when he or she is growing up in the middle of a fast-paced city environment.  Granted, Springfield is as city as Jax gets and it is still front porch small town feel, so perhaps things are different in that regard.

I know my parents moved up to Jacksonville from living in Miami when they had me because they did not want to raise kids in that city.  I think most people who might enjoy city life when they are single or just a couple think twice when they start having kids, hence suburbs.

Also, as so many on this board have been quoted as saying that "urban" living is a utopia, all 4 elevators in my 40 floor building shut down yesterday when it reached 106+ degrees and the processors overheated.  Many were trapped and overheated, and I had just come in from jogging/walking and running errands outside for 3 hours and couldn't get up to my unit/shade/AC.  It's stuff like that which reminds you that no place is perfect.  Beware.

[thelakelander]

City living for kids probably has tons of advantages, but believe me when I say my friends who grew up IN cities grew up VERY fast.  You're definitely not able to shelter your kids from the "evils" of the world in the middle of a city.  Springfield is probably no exception to that rule, but there is no "city" environment in Jacksonville to the extent that I'm referring to.  You're 14 year old is not going to be the sheltered innocent 14 year old you might hope for when he or she is growing up in the middle of a fast-paced city environment.

Unless, you're locking your kid up in a dungeon and home schooling them, there is no sheltering.  Money can't buy that these days.  Just as soon as the little one enters a church, public, or private schools, bets are all off on the sheltering from the "evils" of the world.  I say that, because the sheltering stops at your door.  Any place they come into contact with someone not within your household or raised by the same rules, there's no telling what they will be exposed too.

[simms3]

Oh...totally forgot.  Watch the movie "Kids".  It was a pledge movie night selection one week in my fraternity.  It's definitely for adults only, but it's about kids growing up in Manhattan.  Very disturbing.  Conversely, you could watch the documentary "Lost Children of Rockdale County", which was shown at a youth group I attended in Jax.  It's about suburban kids and might be even more disturbing.  I guess you pick your battles.

[simms3]

I hold firm on my thoughts and observations.  I never said there was anything wrong IMO with growing up fast, in fact it seems to put a bigger head on kids' shoulders as they age into their 20s, but seriously kids grow up faster in big cities.  Kids might get into more trouble in the suburbs/smaller towns with nothing to do but keg parties, but it doesn't mean they "grow up".

[thelakelander]

What's your definition of "growing up."  Is this a reference to being street smart?

[simms3]

^^^Sure.  Though having street smarts implies you have been through situations and have learned/"grown up".  I also recognize that kids are exposed to a lot more IN the city than out, and at an early age.

I think some parents like to see their kids innocent about the ways of the world while they still have them.  Some parents want their kids to be part of the real world as soon as possible.  Some parents teach abstinence and to just say no.  Some parents teach their kids to be "smart" about their choices.  It's different strokes for different folks, but to generalize that "raising kids in a city" is the best environment for them is to disregard the decision the majority of American parents make to raise their kids in a slightly if not highly more controllable/sheltered environment than in a city.

I'm never going to have kids or get married, so I don't have my own personal opinions.  I just disagreed with the generalization posed in this thread that raising kids IN cities is best for them.  I think it depends and it's not that easy to say something so generalized such as that.

[simms3]

^^^That may be.  My mother has two kids, was raised in Chicago, after grad school ended up in NYC.  Then was transferred to Madrid, Caracas, Buenos Aires and finally Miami.  Her opinion was to move to Jacksonville, where her husband, my father, was raised (not born).  She was strongly against staying in Miami, even though she lived in Coconut Grove, a nice area even in the 80s.  My father lived on Brickell.  I would say she was pretty experienced, having had me at age 36.

Of course I have cousins raised in much larger cities, and I know their parents wouldn't have had it any other way.  Different strokes for different folks.  I love living IN large cities' urban areas, but then again I will never have kids or be married.

I do work on 3 condo developments, though, in 3 cities' inner areas (Manhattan, West Midtown Atl, DT Nashville), and I work on multifamily in DC (Georgetown) and Boston (Back Bay).  I have seen the resident profile of each.  They are each different, but out of the combined 522 units there might be 5 families, I'm not kidding.  My own neighborhood's profile in a nutshell is young prof, gay, student, empty nester, very occasional family.  Nearly everyone in Midtown Atl lives in multifamily.  As soon as you get to predominantly SFR neighborhoods, even ones where the houses don't really have yards, then you start seeing more families.

Of course we are talking Springfield here, not Bed-Stuy or Hoboken or South Loop.  "City" is relative in Jax, but personally I would be weary of raising kids in Springfield because I would be concerned with proximity to crime and just the general pace of the gentrification of the neighborhood.  You could live in the middle of the tiny so-called "bubble" that is Springfield and if you allow your kids to bike around like most kids do, they only have to go like 3 blocks before they're in real rough areas with high crime.  I don't need to already have kids to know that for me personally that would be highly unappealing, but to each their own.  I would wait for the gays/artists to sweep through the area a little more, revitalize a much larger area more than it is now, and then I would very well consider it.  San Marco is equally close to downtown and just a much better "side of the tracks" for raising kids, in my very personal opinion.  But to each their own.

[simms3]

And might I add that this month, me as a young single guy, am moving to a different building after getting fed up with the crowd that has been moving to my building the past few years.  Even I have gotten tired of feeling unsafe occasionally in the elevators or walking up to my building at night, or smelling weed every day in the hall, or living next to an indoor smoker, or below a guy who beats women frequently while kids are screaming in the background.  There are a few families in my building, but seriously if I have gotten fed up with this poor behavior as a single male, I couldn't imagine how I'd feel with kids to take care of.

I'm moving to a studio (like 400 SF I believe) in a much different building where there aren't gang starrs, crazy hoes, and tons of indoor smokers.  Yes, even for young "tolerant" people there's a degree of urban life that gets old.  I'm going to be paying much more to live in the new building, but it's worth it to escape inability to sleep as dishes are thrown around the unit above me at 3:00 AM (and I routinely hear gunshots in the parking lot below me...the sound echoes and reverberates around the buildings and it is loud).

Again, I could understand why many folks are apprehensive about raising their kids in this kind of environment, not to mention living in cities is usually so much more expensive than living in burbs and city schools are usually horrible (and big city private schools are sooo much more than smaller city counterparts).

[thelakelander]

It's all relative I guess.  Springfield doesn't seem so rough to me.  If people think Springfield is not safe, they probably wouldn't get out of the car in the neighborhood I grew up in, where there was and still is zero percent of gentrification going on.  Nevertheless, even in the crack cocaine 80s, you were perfectly fine unless you were doing something you had no business doing.