Author Topic: Retail-less parking garage proposed for Downtown  (Read 69503 times)

Ocklawaha

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Re: Retail-less parking garage proposed for Downtown
« Reply #195 on: June 14, 2012, 09:18:09 PM »
Great report Doug, over the top man! Thank you.

I've sent out an email to every member of the board, I'm hoping that everyone else that reads this will do at least that much. Be nice if we could blitz the meeting.

Kay gracefully posted the email addresses back on page 2, and I'm reposting them here:

Jim Bailey      JBailey@baileypub.com
Jonathan Garza      jgarza@garzabuilt.com
John Fischer      jfischer@marandbuilders.com
Timothy Miller      tmiller@elm-plan.com
Chris Flagg      cflagg@flaggdesignstudio.com
Logan Rink      rink@designcooperativefla.com
Monty Selim      selimm@bellsouth.net
Andy Sikes      andy.sikes@bmcjax.com
Roland Udenze      roland.udenze@thehaskellco.com
Eric Lindstrom      ericl@coj.net

So fire up those keyboards boys and girls and shoot em all a piece of your mind.

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OCKLAWAHA
« Last Edit: June 14, 2012, 09:19:41 PM by Ocklawaha »

ronchamblin

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Re: Retail-less parking garage proposed for Downtown
« Reply #196 on: June 15, 2012, 12:28:29 AM »
I’m so pleased to see the recent posts opposing any ground level parking garage encroachment into the valuable street access areas.  Thanks Lake, Doug, Ock, Jeffs, Simms etc.  It’s almost like everybody is in agreement with what is an unwritten law saying that nobody can build another parking garage at ground floor with anything less than forty feet depth for future lease to retail or similar.  This is a principle which nobody should be able to disregard while designing any parking facility to be located in the city core.  Any attempt to disregard this unwritten law is probably evidence of pressure from motives not for the ultimate good of the city core..... selfish immediate profits?   .... stupidity?   

Just as with the Hemming Park problem, we should design and build for the future vibrancy, even if we don’t have it now, because not doing so will delay or prevent the actual achievement of the vibrancy in the end.  In other words, we might not be able to fill the retail spaces provided at ground level on the perimeter of any parking built in the core, but we should certainly build the space for it.   

dougskiles

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Re: Retail-less parking garage proposed for Downtown
« Reply #197 on: June 15, 2012, 06:33:30 AM »
I need to clarify my report of what Mark Rimmer stated (he emailed me this morning - I always forget that people do read this stuff!).  He actually said that the garage should have an entrance at BOTH Hogan and Bay St.  Here are his reasons:

Quote
The reason was that the Hogan entrance would be the front door for activities at the TU Center/Landing/River, but Bay would be needed to serve the office environment.  Also, many events require that Hogan be closed down to vehicular traffic, so you would need that additional ingress/egress on Hogan.  From an operational perspective you need to have both entrance areas in order to allow decent traffic flow without creating choke points on the downtown streets in that area.

Mark is a brilliant person who has more experience with parking garages and urban traffic issues than anyone I know.  I am grateful that he is also an advocate for responsible downtown development.

simms3

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Re: Retail-less parking garage proposed for Downtown
« Reply #198 on: June 15, 2012, 06:56:20 AM »
Ron,

It's funny you bring up depth.  This is another angle that causes concern with the plan for me.  With a garage/streetlevel retail you're going to end up with one depth, limited space and limited floorplans.  You're a retailer/business owner so you are well versed in this subject, but the LOD/space plan is just as important to the process of attracting a retailer/restauranteur as the location and terms.  The space may be there, but it may be forced and unleasable to anything other than a dry cleaner or nail salon or smoothie shop.

This is another reason why I would personally rather wait for more money to be thrown at the space so a real development can be built and a real design team utilized.  The plan for the space as it stands is a tilt-up design...do we really want a tilt-up building, even with retail space, on our most prime piece of land?
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thelakelander

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Re: Retail-less parking garage proposed for Downtown
« Reply #199 on: June 15, 2012, 07:57:57 AM »
Great point simms3.  We have several garages with retail depths that pretty much limit their use.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

fsujax

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Re: Retail-less parking garage proposed for Downtown
« Reply #200 on: June 15, 2012, 07:58:45 AM »
Good to hear so many showed up.  Keep the pressure on!

Dapperdan

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Re: Retail-less parking garage proposed for Downtown
« Reply #201 on: June 15, 2012, 08:06:35 AM »
I don't understand why Parador wouldn't want these extra lease payments coming in. They can get a heckuva lot more money from a  store lease than they would for single parking spots in those same locations. It may cost them more upfront, but wouldn't this be more beneficial to them?

tufsu1

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Re: Retail-less parking garage proposed for Downtown
« Reply #202 on: June 15, 2012, 08:33:29 AM »
I don't understand why Parador wouldn't want these extra lease payments coming in.

probably because they assume the space would be empty for many years....and more importantly, it means less parking spaces and they don't want to add another level to compensate.

fieldafm

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Re: Retail-less parking garage proposed for Downtown
« Reply #203 on: June 15, 2012, 08:34:47 AM »
I don't understand why Parador wouldn't want these extra lease payments coming in. They can get a heckuva lot more money from a  store lease than they would for single parking spots in those same locations. It may cost them more upfront, but wouldn't this be more beneficial to them?

My personal opinion is that they are in it for the short term.  The parking garage makes their building more attractive to sell in a few years once office condo penetration increases.  The building itself actually got a few more tenants a year or so ago (mostly attorneys).  Seeing this as a short term investment (with taxpayer money) they have every incentive to do this as cheaply as possible.  They probably won't fill up those retail spaces in a short period of time, hence they don't want to build them.  The developer doesnt seem like a long term player in this market.

Thanks for showing up Doug.  Being the only person that spoke on the issue at the first DDRB meeting, I emailed the board my thoughts(the setback idea basically echoed Ennis' comments) and also my dissapointment for not receiving notice of this meeting.  9:30AM meetings are tough to account for in my corporate job, so this was a particularly difficult meeting to attend even if proper notice was given.

I'll be at the next review, which would serve as the final review.  If they don't propose what is required by law with taxpayer assistance... come hell or high water this boondoggle should not be built.   

simms3

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Re: Retail-less parking garage proposed for Downtown
« Reply #204 on: June 15, 2012, 09:47:15 AM »
To Parador retail bays represent a carrying cost, not rental income.  They rightly assume so.

This is the kind of developable land that deserves a great developer who can secure strong financing, provide tremendous vision, and move forward on a quicker timeframe on something that would normally be out of the city's league of development.  Said development would include certain loss leaders like retail and perhaps an office component, but the developer would be creative enough to create the demand through intense marketing and the lender would have a high level of faith and a working relationship with the partners involved.

http://vimeo.com/35291639
Just a marketing video routinely put out in conjuction with the CID and local developers, but actual developers routinely create similar videos to spread awareness of an area and spur demand for units in their developments.
http://vimeopro.com/12thmidtown/collection
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4u8TDKBHUkE&feature=youtu.be

I envision something to the level of the above.  Similar proposals for that site as years before, but more employed developer and stronger backing.  I won't complain too bitterly about a similar Parador proposal in another area of downtown that isn't "Prime", but I'll sit on my hands regarding the current site waiting for something great.

Once this site is taken up by a bland garage, the relative few prime developable plots downtown shrinks significantly.  Of course this is what you get when land is sooo cheap and anyone can feasibly put just about anything anywhere (especially with the city putting in).
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Tacachale

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Re: Retail-less parking garage proposed for Downtown
« Reply #205 on: June 15, 2012, 09:50:13 AM »
Thanks for the input everyone. We can't be quiet about this one. Has anyone brought up building the garage so that a tower could be put on top of it down the road?
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

fsujax

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Re: Retail-less parking garage proposed for Downtown
« Reply #206 on: June 15, 2012, 09:51:39 AM »
I did mention that to a Board member.

dougskiles

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Re: Retail-less parking garage proposed for Downtown
« Reply #207 on: June 15, 2012, 10:01:24 AM »
To Parador retail bays represent a carrying cost, not rental income.  They rightly assume so.

This is the kind of developable land that deserves a great developer who can secure strong financing, provide tremendous vision, and move forward on a quicker timeframe on something that would normally be out of the city's league of development.  Said development would include certain loss leaders like retail and perhaps an office component, but the developer would be creative enough to create the demand through intense marketing and the lender would have a high level of faith and a working relationship with the partners involved.

http://vimeo.com/35291639
Just a marketing video routinely put out in conjuction with the CID and local developers, but actual developers routinely create similar videos to spread awareness of an area and spur demand for units in their developments.
http://vimeopro.com/12thmidtown/collection
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4u8TDKBHUkE&feature=youtu.be

I envision something to the level of the above.  Similar proposals for that site as years before, but more employed developer and stronger backing.  I won't complain too bitterly about a similar Parador proposal in another area of downtown that isn't "Prime", but I'll sit on my hands regarding the current site waiting for something great.

Once this site is taken up by a bland garage, the relative few prime developable plots downtown shrinks significantly.  Of course this is what you get when land is sooo cheap and anyone can feasibly put just about anything anywhere (especially with the city putting in).

Awesome videos simms3.  You work for such a developer, yes?  Have they looked at the site?

fieldafm

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Re: Retail-less parking garage proposed for Downtown
« Reply #208 on: June 15, 2012, 10:15:15 AM »
Quote
Has anyone brought up building the garage so that a tower could be put on top of it down the road?

Yes.  Doesn't appear the developer wants to do that.  Read: motivation is cheap construction due to short term goals. 

Tacachale

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Re: Retail-less parking garage proposed for Downtown
« Reply #209 on: June 15, 2012, 10:16:42 AM »
^These guys sound like some real class acts. Too typical.
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?