Author Topic: Retail-less parking garage proposed for Downtown  (Read 67286 times)

acme54321

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Re: Retail-less parking garage proposed for Downtown
« Reply #150 on: June 08, 2012, 02:53:46 PM »
That was the member who works at Haskell.  Activating the facade means nothing if the structure is dead at ground level.

That guy should have just excused himself from the meeting all together.  In the least he should have not commented on that particular project.

JeffreyS

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Re: Retail-less parking garage proposed for Downtown
« Reply #151 on: June 08, 2012, 03:23:41 PM »
That was the member who works at Haskell.  Activating the facade means nothing if the structure is dead at ground level.

That guy should have just excused himself from the meeting all together.  In the least he should have not commented on that particular project.

The city attorney warned him that commenting might be viewed as inappropriate. If he was not at the meeting however they would not have had the 5 members required be present not vote to approve the minutes and make any action.
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simms3

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Re: Retail-less parking garage proposed for Downtown
« Reply #152 on: June 08, 2012, 03:43:01 PM »
Developers who are focused on infill and downtowns are usually developers who take pride in their assets and their work.  They want their name attached to something fairly or significantly iconic.  The firm I works for takes so much pride in all of our projects (well suburban strip centers and multifamily deals we own are not the face of the company), but our marketing efforts to pension funds and to investors and to city agencies and communities focus on current and prior assets that are iconic on either a local level (Warehouse Row in Chattanooga) or on a global level (General Motors building, Chelsea Market, One Times Square, etc).

I am frankly shocked that Haskell and these guys have no shame in being the creators of/attached to this proposal.  It's a shameful design and horrible for the city.  It's a criminal development without major variances and offers up nothing to nobody.  Without city assistance there isn't even a way to justify building the garage because there isn't even demand for it.

I can't believe there is NO shame in this.  Parador doesn't mind putting this up???  Haskell will use this as one of theirs to advertise to suburban office users who need garages??  It's just incredible to me what is going on here.
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Fallen Buckeye

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Re: Retail-less parking garage proposed for Downtown
« Reply #153 on: June 09, 2012, 02:42:30 PM »
Well, they are the same ones operate out of that really underwhelming building right on the riverfront. I never liked that building no matter what angle I looked at it from.

I-10east

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Re: Retail-less parking garage proposed for Downtown
« Reply #154 on: June 09, 2012, 05:10:11 PM »
Good news, the review board rejected the parking garage design.

www.jaxdailyrecord.com/downtowntoday.php?dt_date=2012-06-08

Ocklawaha

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Re: Retail-less parking garage proposed for Downtown
« Reply #155 on: June 09, 2012, 10:30:20 PM »
Quote
In the second half of the 20th century, Rouse and his company became major developers of suburban strip shopping centers and pioneered large shopping malls. In many cities, these were seen as escalating the failure of retail businesses and causing further deterioration of older, downtown core areas.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Festival_marketplace

The Landing is no different from Norfolk's Waterside, Miami's Bayside, Baltimore's Harborplace, Boston's Faneuil Hall and NYC's South Street Seaport.  It's an urban center that basically focuses on its self instead of making a real effort to blend in with the environment surrounding it.  Just like the office towers built during that era.

Did they continue building strip centers and shopping malls, just in the urban areas rather than the burbs? The Landing design is focused on the water. You could build the exact same thing in Green Cove (or better, on the ICWW), surround it by parking lots, and it would probably be more successful.

Waterside, Bayside, and Harborplace are all good comparisons (and I'd add Station Square in Pittsburgh). They all embrace the water and are cut off on the road side. They all require large parking facilities. Station Square is completely isolated from the city...

Oh, but STATION SQUARE is not as isolated as one might think, diagonally across Smithfield and Carson Streets is one element of the connectivity with the urban core. Pittsburgh's amazing Light Rail system.



Smithfield Busway and Carson Street.

Seen from another direction, note that the LIGHT RAIL and the BRT system, one of the oldest in the country, share a stop at STATION SQUARE.


STATION SQUARE STATION - LRT-BRT-CITY BUS

I'm sure there is a message in this for Jacksonville, now if our leaders could just figure out what it is. It's not enough to say we want Streetcars, Skyway and BRT, we have to ACT! If we had such systems, another giant parking garage wouldn't be eating more of our public dollars.

Oh my God, I was at Station Square when it was still a station! Pittsburgh and Lake Erie Railroad, an arm of the New York Central, that became Penn Central, that became Conrail, that became CSX.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2012, 10:34:55 PM by Ocklawaha »

JFman00

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Re: Retail-less parking garage proposed for Downtown
« Reply #156 on: June 09, 2012, 10:45:21 PM »
Good news, the review board rejected the parking garage design.

www.jaxdailyrecord.com/downtowntoday.php?dt_date=2012-06-08

Glad to see reason prevail and board members looking out for the best interests of the city.

JeffreyS

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Re: Retail-less parking garage proposed for Downtown
« Reply #157 on: June 10, 2012, 07:32:47 AM »
Good news, the review board rejected the parking garage design.

www.jaxdailyrecord.com/downtowntoday.php?dt_date=2012-06-08

This is not new news. There is not a rejection just a deferral to a workshop this week. At the workshop the developer will try to get out of doing retail with some spin about shadow boxes activating the space and the potential for adding retail later.  We have to keep banging the drum that retail be included.  If it is just potential for future modification the owner will never look for retail tenants but if he has empty retail space on site he will start looking immediately.  Having to do any construction later especially modifications will be a reason for the owner to discourage retail. Keep the emails going to the DDRB and CC and ask your council member to email the DDRB.
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simms3

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Re: Retail-less parking garage proposed for Downtown
« Reply #158 on: June 10, 2012, 01:00:47 PM »
Now that we know this thing isn't over I figured I would post a few pics of good and bad examples from my area.

When you live in an autocentric city with this -



Garages are necessary.  The trick is to blend the garages in and allow them to serve multiple purposes and adapt over time as they become less and less necessary.

1) Terminus parking deck.  My old parking deck last year.  Master-planned development in a semi-urban vertical suburban office park called Buckhead.  Buckhead CID has been working hard the past 2 years to make the area more walkable.  This has included wider sidewalks, stricter design regulations, bike lanes, improved ped crossings, trees, a north entrance to the MARTA station, etc etc.  Terminus was developed by Cousins between 2006 and 2009 and was at the forefront of the "transformation" of the area.  It anchors the south end of the Buckhead CBD and sits prominently at the major intersection of Peachtree and Piedmont, so architectural appeal, sight lines, and precedent for new development were at the forefront.

There are 2 office buildings with over 1.2M SF, 137 sold out condos, and a 12 level deck...all over 70,000 SF of retail currently at 77% occupancy with several restaurants and retail tenants such as Poggen Pohl, a cosmetic dentist, a bridal shop and a Wolf/Sub-Zero showroom, Chik-Fil-A, Cantina, Bricktops, a bank, etc etc.

The BREEZEway between the deck and Terminus 100 office building now hosts events and is constantly activated.  It can be very breezy though (that is something they failed to plan for in the direction the breezeway faces).

My photos (3 years old):





From Terminus' Facebook site:







A fashion event...







One of the restaurants (a fancy sushi place with prices that would SCARE Jax natives use to paying Jax sushi prices)



From Terminus website http://www.terminusatlanta.com/



From Atlanta Skyrise Blog (Cousins scrapping 3rd office tower so Crescent Resources can put up rental low-rises) http://www.atlantaskyriseblog.com/






2) 12th and Midtown.  This is another master-planned development in Midtown by Daniel/Selig/Metlife/Northwestern Mutual/Canyon Johnson and is my favorite mixed-use development in the South.  Of course every building sits on a parking pedestal.  Most of these pics are old and the back of 1010 has long been leased to restaurants Ri Ra, Ra, and Piola.  Now STK and Cucina Asellina join those restaurants, Bank of America, and Crate and Barrel (CB2) as retail tenants and Cafe Intermezzo and Mi Cocina will be opening this fall on the corners of Peachtree and 11th, activating the main frontage a little more (and the buildouts are going to be phenominal).  Apple looked at going in a few years back and may reconsider within a year if current leasing picks up (rents here are $45-60+/SF, some of the most expensive retail in the city).

My really old pics (these buildings are truly some of the ony "big city" type buildings in the South, and so when fully built out and leased at the ground level this area will feel pretty cosmopolitan...and tall!)

Note how the important/Peachtree side is done pretty decently, and the garage is more noticeable in the back.  Perhaps with the Jax development it's important to "pick a side".  Which side should be the front (river or Bay St?) and how is the garage going to fit in and be concealed as a result.





The back of 1010 with construction in foreground (now 3 floors up half a year later...taking forever while a 23 floor building just went up a block away in the same time frame).



Newish photo I took this Spring where you can kind of see back.  Garage facade has detailing and storefronts at ground level.  Across the street are 2 very active bars/restaurants.



Phase I, II and III.  There are 5 phases.  Parking pedestals clearly seen in this visual mock-up.



Phase 4.



Maybe this is Phase 4.  All still conceptual but the rumor is Daniel/Metlife want to start soon.



Interior of one of the restaurants.






OK, some Miscellaneous.

Phase I of master-planned Allen Plaza...the front.  This is meh, ok, but at least you can't tell you're looking at a garage.



From the highway the world's largest LED screen flashes video and ads at you.  It conceals a garage for the W Downtown Hotel/Res and 45 Allen Plaza office.





These are obnoxious pedestals.  At least they are activated at ground level (well Viewpoint only has 2 tenants, one of which is Sprint).  Spire seems to be leased-up or mostly leased-up at ground level and is decently inviting.  There are Italian cypress covering the garage from the Peachtree side.  This is what I think what NOT to do, though.




And Streets of Buckhead...now finally underway again.

Old render.



New render from this year's ICSC (they had full scale model, too).



The base of this Atlantic Station office building features an international office furniture designer, manufacturer and marketer.  The garage is built into the building seamlessly like Bank of America downtown.

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simms3

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Re: Retail-less parking garage proposed for Downtown
« Reply #159 on: June 10, 2012, 01:04:14 PM »
BTW I tried resizing the pics down a bit and they are still cut off.  These narrow boards

A) Make average posts seem so long and wordy when often they aren't.

B) Cut off pictures that are normal size (aka 800x600 or in my case since I resized 600x450).  They are still too large.  Can someone tell me the purpose of these narrow narrow templates?
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Tacachale

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Re: Retail-less parking garage proposed for Downtown
« Reply #160 on: June 10, 2012, 02:45:19 PM »
^Compliments, simms. Those are good examples of how to build a garage.
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dougskiles

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Re: Retail-less parking garage proposed for Downtown
« Reply #161 on: June 10, 2012, 04:04:52 PM »
I agree, excellent examples.  I would like to hear more about the Buckhead CID and the role they have played in the community.

simms3

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Re: Retail-less parking garage proposed for Downtown
« Reply #162 on: June 10, 2012, 07:32:09 PM »
I agree, excellent examples.  I would like to hear more about the Buckhead CID and the role they have played in the community.

http://www.buckheadcid.com/

Current Projects underway include:

1) Peachtree Transformation - almost complete

Turning a pedestrian unfriendly suburban arterial into a complete street by adding landscaped medians, bike lanes, wider sidewalks, buried utilities, hardwood shade trees, seasonal plantings and streetside furniture.



2) GA 400 MARTA bridge

Building a $24M pedestrian bridge to connect 2 otherwise disconnected quadrants of Buckhead and re-opening the north entrance to the Buckhead MARTA station, which is a more convenient entrance for Buckhead Station/Alliance Center/Terminus office users and shoppers/residents.



3) GA 400 Greenway Trail

5 mile trail that will connect neighborhoods and schools to the Buckhead CBD and ultimately the Beltline.  For a story on all the new trails and greenways UC or planned for Buckhead see the link below.  PATH is a major organization in Atlanta that has a role in this and nearly every other trail ever constructed in Atlanta.

http://livablebuckhead.com/sustainability/greenspace-2/buckhead-collection/





Board of Directors

David Allman (Regent Partners) – Chairman Major developer in Buckhead
John Lundeen (Coro Realty) – Vice-Chairman Major developer in Buckhead
Charles Ackerman (Ackerman & Co.) – Treasurer Major developer
Robin Loudermilk (The Loudermilk Companies) – Member Aaron's CEO and major local figure...personally bankrolled much of Streets of Buckhead
Robin Suggs (Simon Properties) – Member
Councilperson Howard Shook (Atlanta City Council) – Member
Thad Ellis (Cousins Properties) – Member
Hunter Richardson (OliverMcMillan) – Member New master developer of Streets of Buckhead
Scott Selig (Selig Enterprises) – Member Major midtown/retail developer and resident of Buckhead

Partners
http://thebuckheadcoalition.org/

Sam Massell - Chairman (former Atlanta mayor)
Bernie Marcus (Marcus Foundation/Home Depot)
Jack Sawyer (Wilmington Trust)
Rob Schreiner (Kaiser Permanente)
Stuart Snyder (TBS)
Mike Sivewright (JLL)
Brant Standridge (BB&T)
Mark Donnelly (Wells Fargo)
Joshua Goldfarb (Southeast Apartment)


Buckhead Area Transportation Management Association
http://www.batma.org/

Livable Buckhead
http://livablebuckhead.org/

Buckhead Business Association
http://www.buckheadbusiness.org/



I hate Buckhead with a passion...but you can see the amount of organization, money, effort and influence it takes to create a place like Buckhead...and then to transform it into a more urban area.  As suburban as Buckhead is, it is 5x the size of downtown Jacksonville and downtown Jacksonville can take cues on how to get things done.

Some themes:

Lots of heavy hitting Jews sit on these boards (Sam Massell, Scott Selig, Bernie Marcus, Steven Cadranel, etc etc).  They all happen to be major developers.  They also welcome new people with open arms - bringing a representative from San Diego based developer Olliver MacMillan and Boston based hedge fund Baupost Group (Streets of Buckhead) for one.  Lots of money - several billionaires personally bankroll and throw money around Buckhead for personal interests.  The best example was Robin Loudermilk buying 4 city blocks worth of land and paying $400/land foot in order to close down rowdy bars and clubs and get a new development going.

It's definitely an interesting study - the dynamic and all.  It's as Good Old Boy as Atlanta gets and yet is not even close to being Good Old Boy in the way the Jacksonville network is.  You're invited in based on merit and community involvement, not because you're a member of a certain church or because your daddy was someone "important" back in the day.

Wayyy off topic, but since you asked.  Surely you know that intown Atl nabes like Midtown are far more urban, also controlled and improved by a CID and BID and several TIF zones and Empowerment zones, as well as a historic district.  Downtown has 2 TIF zones, a CID, BID, historic districs, and other groups.  Etc etc.
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I-10east

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Re: Retail-less parking garage proposed for Downtown
« Reply #163 on: June 10, 2012, 08:22:16 PM »
I'm kinda a pessimist when it comes to things like this retail thing, and I don't get my hopes high on certain things only to be disappointed. To be honest, I'll be shocked if this thing will ever have retail. It will most likely only feature all parking, which IMO isn't necessarily be a bad thing as long as it fits better aesthetically than that style (or lack of) of the first proposal; There's some pics on here with non-retail downtown-aesthetic parking garages that looks fine. Probably 98 percent of downtown parking garages don't have retail anyway, that's what existing buildings are for. We already have tons of empty downtown retail space anyway, look no further than the Landing. So it's all good to e-mail and raise hell with wanting retail there, just don't bet the farm on it.

JeffreyS

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Re: Retail-less parking garage proposed for Downtown
« Reply #164 on: June 10, 2012, 11:36:53 PM »
The Landing is doing pretty well with occupancy rate. It really is an important block that just can not have a dead pedestrian space.  It is the block the new employees at Everbank and BB&T will walk on the way to the Landing.  Things change and empty retail space on that block will have the landlord soliciting tenants.
Lenny Smash