Restore Jacksonville 2012

[cline]

I hear there are some good deals to be had over in the Fleming Island area as well as NW St. Johns County.  Maybe you should check it out.  Probably even have new energy efficient windows.

RAP should be a resource to people trying to beautify the neighborhood and preserve its history, not the window police.

The City issues the COAs, not RAP.  And there are many, many folks that have restored homes and have gone through the process.

But at any rate, I plan on trying to attend on Saturday.  Sounds like some good stuff.

[strider]

mtraininjax and Kaiser Soze, your comments typify why Historic Departments and Historic Organizations sometimes forget they are here to help and feel they need to be very tough to get anything done right.  If the truth were to be told, you purposely set out to make the process hard on them, who in turn, make it hard on you.  You, after all, in you own little worlds, are obviously above those codes.

Having worked on many houses "restored" by those who feel the Historic Codes are not for them to follow, I feel bad for anyone who bought those houses after you "restored " them. 

Often, owners and contractors do not really understand the relationship that exists between the Historic Guidelines, the Building Codes and reality.  Even sometimes those charged with the enforcement of the codes need some help understanding it.  It is also a evolving process, one that changes often if not even case by case. Trying to ignore those codes is not the answer unless of course you care little of the future of these structures.  Neither is belittling those charged enforcing the historic codes.  Working within the historic codes is the right way and surprisingly easier than ignoring them if you know what you are doing.

Both of you need to go to this conference.  Who knows, you might even get a clue.

[fsquid]

If RAP has no enforcement power, why didn't the woman just say, "screw you" and install the windows?

Because the City does have enforcement powers and can require the owner to remove the windows.

Gotcha and I guess they take recommendations from RAP?

[Bill Hoff]

If RAP has no enforcement power, why didn't the woman just say, "screw you" and install the windows?

Because the City does have enforcement powers and can require the owner to remove the windows.

Gotcha and I guess they take recommendations from RAP?

RAP & SPAR act as advisors to COJ regarding these issues, more or less, through Design & Review committees.

[Kaiser Soze]

mtraininjax and Kaiser Soze, your comments typify why Historic Departments and Historic Organizations sometimes forget they are here to help and feel they need to be very tough to get anything done right.  If the truth were to be told, you purposely set out to make the process hard on them, who in turn, make it hard on you.  You, after all, in you own little worlds, are obviously above those codes.

Having worked on many houses "restored" by those who feel the Historic Codes are not for them to follow, I feel bad for anyone who bought those houses after you "restored " them. 

Often, owners and contractors do not really understand the relationship that exists between the Historic Guidelines, the Building Codes and reality.  Even sometimes those charged with the enforcement of the codes need some help understanding it.  It is also a evolving process, one that changes often if not even case by case. Trying to ignore those codes is not the answer unless of course you care little of the future of these structures.  Neither is belittling those charged enforcing the historic codes.  Working within the historic codes is the right way and surprisingly easier than ignoring them if you know what you are doing.

Both of you need to go to this conference.  Who knows, you might even get a clue.

What are you talking about.  I called RAP for help.  Did not get any.  Called again to discuss the variance I was seeking.  Never heard back.  RAP shows up to oppose me.  What clue do I need to get?  I bought in the area because I am a history nut and love old houses.  We have put in a lot of hard work and spent a god deal of money restoring a very interesting house.  I never tried to avoid code requirements.

As for belittling those charged with enforcing the codes, that I am not doing.  I am belittling RAP, an organization that is supposed to be advisory in nature.

[strider]

mtraininjax and Kaiser Soze, your comments typify why Historic Departments and Historic Organizations sometimes forget they are here to help and feel they need to be very tough to get anything done right.  If the truth were to be told, you purposely set out to make the process hard on them, who in turn, make it hard on you.  You, after all, in you own little worlds, are obviously above those codes.

Having worked on many houses "restored" by those who feel the Historic Codes are not for them to follow, I feel bad for anyone who bought those houses after you "restored " them. 

Often, owners and contractors do not really understand the relationship that exists between the Historic Guidelines, the Building Codes and reality.  Even sometimes those charged with the enforcement of the codes need some help understanding it.  It is also a evolving process, one that changes often if not even case by case. Trying to ignore those codes is not the answer unless of course you care little of the future of these structures.  Neither is belittling those charged enforcing the historic codes.  Working within the historic codes is the right way and surprisingly easier than ignoring them if you know what you are doing.

Both of you need to go to this conference.  Who knows, you might even get a clue.

What are you talking about.  I called RAP for help.  Did not get any.  Called again to discuss the variance I was seeking.  Never heard back.  RAP shows up to oppose me.  What clue do I need to get?  I bought in the area because I am a history nut and love old houses.  We have put in a lot of hard work and spent a god deal of money restoring a very interesting house.  I never tried to avoid code requirements.

As for belittling those charged with enforcing the codes, that I am not doing.  I am belittling RAP, an organization that is supposed to be advisory in nature.

You put yourself in the same "bucket" as mtraininjax with your comments,  so I guess I inferred that you felt the same way he obviously does.  I still suspect I'm right.  Also, the key word in your post above is "variance".  There are things that both RAP and the Historic Department  can not waive - or give a variance for.  Without knowing what you were asking for, I can't say on your particular case.  However, keep in mind that the idea of a variance is to allow you to do something that is normally outside of the codes.  Sometimes variances can be considered a right by exception if you meet certain criteria, but often they are just a way to get something you want that would normally not be allowed.   And getting a clue in this case may have been going to the design and review board meeting before the actual HPC meeting so you were not blindsided by their opposition and stood a chance of presenting a solid case for yourself.  The other things is, did the Historic Department recommend it for approval or did they tell you when you got the COA that it might be a tough fight? Lots of unknowns here.

In the FWIW column, RAP's Design and Review is typically OK, the members normally seem to have a clue and will work with you as long as they believe you are willing to work with them.  But knowing the codes and the issue very well yourself is important.  I have never been to a SPAR Design and Review meeting (nor will I be attending one) and still have gotten what I needed at HPC.

[Kaiser Soze]

mtraininjax and Kaiser Soze, your comments typify why Historic Departments and Historic Organizations sometimes forget they are here to help and feel they need to be very tough to get anything done right.  If the truth were to be told, you purposely set out to make the process hard on them, who in turn, make it hard on you.  You, after all, in you own little worlds, are obviously above those codes.

Having worked on many houses "restored" by those who feel the Historic Codes are not for them to follow, I feel bad for anyone who bought those houses after you "restored " them. 

Often, owners and contractors do not really understand the relationship that exists between the Historic Guidelines, the Building Codes and reality.  Even sometimes those charged with the enforcement of the codes need some help understanding it.  It is also a evolving process, one that changes often if not even case by case. Trying to ignore those codes is not the answer unless of course you care little of the future of these structures.  Neither is belittling those charged enforcing the historic codes.  Working within the historic codes is the right way and surprisingly easier than ignoring them if you know what you are doing.

Both of you need to go to this conference.  Who knows, you might even get a clue.

What are you talking about.  I called RAP for help.  Did not get any.  Called again to discuss the variance I was seeking.  Never heard back.  RAP shows up to oppose me.  What clue do I need to get?  I bought in the area because I am a history nut and love old houses.  We have put in a lot of hard work and spent a god deal of money restoring a very interesting house.  I never tried to avoid code requirements.

As for belittling those charged with enforcing the codes, that I am not doing.  I am belittling RAP, an organization that is supposed to be advisory in nature.

You put yourself in the same "bucket" as mtraininjax with your comments,  so I guess I inferred that you felt the same way he obviously does.  I still suspect I'm right.  Also, the key word in your post above is "variance".  There are things that both RAP and the Historic Department  can not waive - or give a variance for.  Without knowing what you were asking for, I can't say on your particular case.  However, keep in mind that the idea of a variance is to allow you to do something that is normally outside of the codes.  Sometimes variances can be considered a right by exception if you meet certain criteria, but often they are just a way to get something you want that would normally not be allowed.   And getting a clue in this case may have been going to the design and review board meeting before the actual HPC meeting so you were not blindsided by their opposition and stood a chance of presenting a solid case for yourself.  The other things is, did the Historic Department recommend it for approval or did they tell you when you got the COA that it might be a tough fight? Lots of unknowns here.

In the FWIW column, RAP's Design and Review is typically OK, the members normally seem to have a clue and will work with you as long as they believe you are willing to work with them.  But knowing the codes and the issue very well yourself is important.  I have never been to a SPAR Design and Review meeting (nor will I be attending one) and still have gotten what I needed at HPC.

FTR, I received my variance and politely told the RAP representative to f*ck off.

I would have attended the design and review board committee if I had known about it.  Unfortunately they did not care to hear me or my plans for the house.  They simply did not bother to call me back.

[Dog Walker]

I would have attended the design and review board committee if I had known about it.  Unfortunately they did not care to hear me or my plans for the house.  They simply did not bother to call me back.

Until very recently RAP had exactly ONE paid staff member.  It is all volunteers otherwise.  With the success of RAM, there are now THREE paid staff members.  WOW, huge organization!  That they are all grossly overworked and have one or two night meeting every week is a given.

I've restored three buildings in the district, two of them condemned and about to be bulldozed.  Both RAP and the Historic Preservation Committee staff were of enormous help in navigating the COA, Permitting, and Variance processes.  But, I went to them both seeking help, not all bowed-up and bristly from having to ask permission to do something with MY property.  Everything went very smoothly on a difficult project.  Cop and attitude and you might just get attitude back.  Human nature.

This Restore Jacksonville conference is going to be full of information for contractors and homeowners.  It is a project of the City of Jacksonville Historic Preservation Committee.  If you are going to work on old houses this is a fantastic opportunity to learn the techniques and requirements.

Remember, the greenest building is one that already exists and they can be made energy efficient without destroying the historic character too.  That is what this conference is all about.  Good stuff!

[Kaiser Soze]

Until very recently RAP had exactly ONE paid staff member.  It is all volunteers otherwise.  With the success of RAM, there are now THREE paid staff members.  WOW, huge organization!  That they are all grossly overworked and have one or two night meeting every week is a given.

I fully recognize that.  But when that one employee shows up to oppose my variance rather than put in the 5 minutes to return my call,that's not helping your constituents and it sure as hell is not aiding in the preservation of the area.  My wife and I would have liked very much to become very involved with RAP when we moved to the area.   Its actions have turned us against it.

[fieldafm]

Remember, the greenest building is one that already exists and they can be made energy efficient without destroying the historic character too.  That is what this conference is all about.  Good stuff!

+1

[Timkin]

Remember, the greenest building is one that already exists and they can be made energy efficient without destroying the historic character too.  That is what this conference is all about.  Good stuff!

+1

++1

[Dog Walker]

Don't forget the Restore Jacksonville Conference at the library later this week.  There are lots of MetroJacksonville people involved.

Ennis and Nomeous will be there with their book too!

[grimss]

Just got an email from RAP that details a number of Saturday's sessions (including Stephen and Ennis's) and includes a $5 discount off walk-up admission. I'm impressed by the variety of talks. http://mim.io/14c292?fe=1&pact=9057926095

[Dog Walker]

That Windows 101 seminar on Saturday morning is going to be well worth the price of admission by itself if it can teach me how to weatherstrip my drafty old windows.  The people giving it are supposed to be experienced experts in the repair and upgrading of historic windows.

[grimss]

Ennis and I are getting prepped to go onstage now!

How did it go? Really sorry to have missed it, but I was schlepping kids to soccer down in Gainesville. Hope it was a good turnout. I went to the Friday sessions with Donovan Rypkema and Steve Mouzon, and these guys were TOP NOTCH. National-caliber speakers with tremendous perspective.  Both Rypkema and Mouzon took time out of their schedules to meet with Park & King/Avondale/RAP representatives at Whiteway at lunch to discuss issues of growth and parking, and what's worked elsewhere. High class.