Ten Principles for Creating A Successful Hemming Plaza

[hightowerlover]

Whoever keeps playing with making each of the articles multiple pages, it's annoying.

[coredumped]

Whoever keeps playing with making each of the articles multiple pages, it's annoying.

I hate to be negative because the article itself is very good, but I have to agree - the multi-page stuff is very annoying. Also off-topic, there should be a site-discussion forum:)

[Kaiser Soze]

The worst it's been when I've gone downtown is someone asking me for money. Tip: that happens EVERYWHERE.

Then I don't think you spend much time down there.  I do.  I've been yelled and cursed at.  Seen male on female violence.  All sorts of stuff.  I have not experienced that in other major cities. 

That's a police problem to me, not a homeless problem.

stay in the suburbs where you don't have to see poverty (even though it's there).

I thought the point was to encourage people to visit downtown???

My point is that there are going to be homeless people in a downtown and the cost:benefit of trying to displace them isn't worth the effort.

It is not difficult. This is the largest factor in the revitalization of St Pete.

http://www.stpete.org/socialservices/homelessness/ordinanceslaws.asp

All of those same things are already illegal in downtown Jacksonville.
[/quote]Agreed.  But its not just about the ordinances being in place.  If JSO enforced these laws, many folks, including members of the board, would likely be outraged.

[Kaiser Soze]

Agreed.  But its not just about the ordinances being in place.  If JSO enforced these laws, many folks, including members of the board, would likely be outraged.
[/quote]

Bunkum.

No reason to straw man "the board", Kaiser.  Since you yourself are a part of that group.
[/quote]What does that even mean, Stephen?  Please try to respond without calling me a Klansman or ass.

[bill]

Wow pre-arrogance, condescension and see how smart I am. Maybe it will save us from hearing it on the back end. One can hope.

[Kaiser Soze]

Perhaps you could clarify your own statement, kaiser, without calling anyone a pussyboy or using the word "fuck" for multiple grammar replacements?  Not saying you would, but you know----just in case.

Specifically, what on earth makes you think that "the board" Would be against enforcing the already existing laws?

Enforcing the existing laws against the homeless population is a messy occurrence that raises the ire of many local liberal residents.  Unfortunately, your reading comprehension leaves much to be desired.  Many on this board would have no problem with it.  However, its safe to assume that others on this board would be offended.

[bill]

Wow pre-arrogance, condescension and see how smart I am. Maybe it will save us from hearing it on the back end. One can hope.

I wouldn't get too worked up about it bill.  While its condescending to speak on behalf of an entire group of people by creating pre ordained opinions for them to have, our posters are thick skinned historically.

Damn I was wrong

I know that I'm not offended.

[tufsu1]

great article Ennis! 

Much of this informatuion presented here will be part of a position paper TransForm Jax will be issuing later today.  It will be dsitributed to members of City Council, the Ad Hoc Committee, and the Mayor's Office.

If anyone would like to read the TransForm Jax position paper on Hemming Plaza, it can be found here:

http://transformjax.wordpress.com/

[peestandingup]

Perhaps you could clarify your own statement, kaiser, without calling anyone a pussyboy or using the word "fuck" for multiple grammar replacements?  Not saying you would, but you know----just in case.

Specifically, what on earth makes you think that "the board" Would be against enforcing the already existing laws?

Enforcing the existing laws against the homeless population is a messy occurrence that raises the ire of many local liberal residents.  Unfortunately, your reading comprehension leaves much to be desired.  Many on this board would have no problem with it.  However, its safe to assume that others on this board would be offended.

What are you rambling about? "Liberals" do what?? I'm pretty sure you're looking at this problem through some kind of weird tunnel vision of "Us VS Them".

No matter what you do to the park, homeless are still gonna be homeless. And call me crazy, but most of these so called "liberals" I'm pretty sure don't really care so much about the homeless (since they know that) as much as they do about spending millions of dollars combating this "problem", while messing up a perfectly good park in the process & making it less usable for everyone, all the while using the poor/homeless as a scapegoat again to wreak more havoc downtown.

So tell me who's the liberals & conservatives again? I get confused.

[Bill Hoff]

The worst it's been when I've gone downtown is someone asking me for money. Tip: that happens EVERYWHERE.

Then I don't think you spend much time down there.  I do.  I've been yelled and cursed at.  Seen male on female violence.  All sorts of stuff.  I have not experienced that in other major cities. 

stay in the suburbs where you don't have to see poverty (even though it's there).

I thought the point was to encourage people to visit downtown???

I work with homeless on a daily basis, and am very familar with the population, the issues, the resources, etc, so I'm going to chime in.

I think this is a "which comes first, the chicken or the egg?" argument.

Will shifting the homeless away from this area make other citizens feel more comfortable to use the park space?

Or will adding programming attract citizens to the park space, which will in turn disperse or mask the homeless population there?

Both are true.

I think many would love to use the space as is, but feel uncomfortable around homeless. And why not, many are pretty rough, have mental/substance abuse issues, and have a record of bad judgement. Not exactly the crowd you want to relax amongst on your lunch break or after a visit to MOCA.

I think many would also be happy to use the park space if there was some reason for them to go, even if there was a large homeless presence. And why not, many homeless are just simply not well adjusted to advance in society or unable to dig themselves out of whatever situation they're in, but aren't bad people, theives, or looking to attack random people if only given the opprotunity. Add a live jazz band and a couple food trucks, and *BAM* - instant destination lunch spot (assuming the trees & seating are still there).

Both are true, just depending on how you feel personally. It's pointless to argue who's right or wrong, because there is no right or wrong answer.

So, yes - substantially shifting homeless away from the park will help the situation. And yes, - adding programming to the park will help the situation, as would a mild facelift.

If either was done correctly, I think it would make an impact. However, it doesn't have to be either / or...the most effective solution is to do both.

Whether the political will and money is there to implement the most effective solution (aka both) is the question.

Maybe, maybe not.

Btw, the much talked about/ rumored homeless day center is being proposed for Tallyrand Avenue, about 1 mile away from the Sulzbacher Center. Hypothetically, this may shift the some of the homeless population away from the Downtown core (and Hemming Plaza) over in that general direction. 

[ronchamblin]

From what I’ve seen on this forum, and from what I recall from the results of the survey, there is very little support for the removal of the permanent table and chair assemblies and their replacement with removable units.  And there is absolutely no support for the removal of the large oaks. This much is clear.

The forum and survey also supports programming, the encouragement of vendors in the park, along with other retail, and the encouragement of local workers to use the park for lunch and meetings.

Regarding the unwanted elements who seem to occupy the park, most seem to expect that the “problem” will decrease as more people use the park, as more activity exists in the park, and as another facility is made available for the current occupier types.

And most seem to oppose any radical change to the park, and suggest instead only the removal and replacement of the four or five sick trees with young teenage trees.  Most seem to realize how much we need large oak trees in Hemming because it is surrounded by concrete and buildings.

The oaks.  Large oaks not only block the harmful sun’s rays, but actually cool the area below them.  A large oak tree can draw from the ground via its root system up to 50 gallons of water per day.  And some of that water evaporates from the leaves during the hot sun, cooling the air, which then descends slowly to the ground, cooling any animal or human below.

If I were a religious person, I would suggest that this wonderful natural “free” process was some god’s way of making people in Hemming comfortable.  Not being infected with religion, I will simply say that we humans are fortunate to have this free cooling process, and that any individual or group of individuals who suggest removing most or all of the large oaks from Hemming would be foolish indeed, especially after becoming aware of this cooling process.  But perhaps, given that the idea of heat is involved, which is related to the myth of hell, perhaps there is a wish by some individual, or individuals, to provide a small bit of hell for some by having them endure Hemming without the large oaks.       

So ….. why has there been so much talk about removable tables and chairs?  Why has there been so much talk about removing the large oaks?  Who is running this show?  What about the will of the majority?  Who, specifically, wants to have removable tables and chairs? – and for what reason, specifically?  Who, specifically, wants to remove most or all of the large oaks – and for what reason, specifically?

[nomeus]

how about a $800,000 homeless shelter or $800,000 worth of jobs for some of those folks? how about $800,000 worth of tangible efforts toward the homeless problem in jax?

[Debbie Thompson]

Sigh.  Is anyone listening to what the public wants?  Guess not.

[Ralph W]

This ought to solve the plaza problem:

[krazeeboi]

It should be realized that the biggest issue with Hemming Park is that it is symptomatic of the state of downtown as a whole with its lack of synergestic nodes that generate pedestrian activity. The uses that surround the park aren't really conducive to being a consistently-utilized gathering spot. Contrast this with Center City Park in downtown Greensboro, NC which is located along an active Elm Street that has a mix of uses along the corridor and directly across from a residential high rise which used to be an office building but was rehabbed shortly after the park was constructed.