Author Topic: Urban Projects Struggle To Stay Alive  (Read 16289 times)

second_pancake

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Re: Urban Projects Struggle To Stay Alive
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2008, 10:26:34 AM »
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"Look what these monkeys can do!"

We already have that too.  It's called, JTA ;D
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Dapperdan

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Re: Urban Projects Struggle To Stay Alive
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2008, 11:01:20 AM »
NJ:  We DO have an amphitheatre as well as a HUGE and very expensive collesium that rarely get used.  I can't tell you when the last major recording artist was here (and I'm talking the Elton John's, Rolling Stones, and U2's of the world).  They all go to Orlando, Miami or Atlanta.  The city doesn't even do a decent job of booking the stadium.  There is never anything going on down there when games aren't in full force.


This is not true. I personally within the past 2 months have been to several events at the Arena including an R Kelley concert. Van Halen will be playing, Hannah Montanna, Dancing With The Stars, the Police Fireman Boxing event, Micaheal Buble.. there are lots of events at The Arena. I suggest you visit the box office and go to some events.

Webini

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Re: Urban Projects Struggle To Stay Alive
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2008, 11:16:47 AM »
I agree with Dapperdan to a large degree.  I've noticed in my time living near downtown that for the most part people don't "come outside".  It's like there are events that happen, but noone attends them. When I moved to Riverside I was really shocked at how many things actually go on that aren't publicized. I think part of the reason (which has been discussed over and over on this site) is accessiblity and options.  It's simply not worth the pain to actually get out and do things downtown.  Case in point. Last year's  Caribbean fest that was held at Metro Park.  It was a GREAT.  I was told that it's been going on here for some years now, but the numbers were very low.  I asked some friends of mine who seemed interested why they didn't attend, and almost every one of them said that it was too much of a hassle to go do anything downtown only to have to leave in a couple hours.

Like it was said before, it's sort of a catch 22.  Where do you put the blame here? The city, for not having proper accessibility and entertainment, or the people for being lazy. Surely in Miami and South Beach you get the same traffic headaches (probably more), but people don't seem to mind because once you're parked, you can pretty much stay in the area all day and night with various activities. 

But, if the people don't come, there is no real incentive to open more entertainment/cultural venues, and without more venues, the people won't come.

thelakelander

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Re: Urban Projects Struggle To Stay Alive
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2008, 11:40:11 AM »
synergy....connectivity.....

All of the problems going on today are a direct result of not having these two things downtown.

The location of Metropolitan Park has a lot to do with the low turn out.  We can call it downtown and it may be within DVI's imaginary borders, but its a mile away from the Northbank core with nothing interesting in between.  What goes on there is just as beneficial to the Northbank as what goes on at Edward Waters College or Hendricks Avenue.  Everything has and continues to be developed with no relation to their surroundings. 

Instead of having these things in Metropolitan Park, maybe we should try to have them in Hemming Plaza and on the sidewalks of Laura and Hogan between the Landing and Hemming?  Doing this would actually expose visitors to the shops that are downtown and mix them in with people visiting the Landing and Library, creating a bigger crowd and pulling in walk up traffic.  Do that enough and then the core starts to get the notion of being the place to be, which attracts more residences, retailers and cultural events.

Looking back, I truly believe not getting the Landing's courtyard opened up to Laura Street, before the Super Bowl was one of the largest tragedies in urban Jacksonville's recent history.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

second_pancake

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Re: Urban Projects Struggle To Stay Alive
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2008, 12:50:45 PM »
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This is not true. I personally within the past 2 months have been to several events at the Arena including an R Kelley concert. Van Halen will be playing, Hannah Montanna, Dancing With The Stars, the Police Fireman Boxing event, Micaheal Buble.. there are lots of events at The Arena. I suggest you visit the box office and go to some events.

Uh...I think you just proved my point.  With the exception of Van Halen, and the Police, I would hardly put "Dancing with The Stars", "Fireman Boxing", "Michael Buble", "R. Kelly" and "Hannah Montana" up there with U2 and the Rolling Stones.  I guess if the city's goal is to attract people over the age of 60, under the age of 12, or pedophile supporters into downtown, then you're right.  They're doing a great job.

It's true there's probably a lot more going on down there than I know of because like webini said, it's just not publicized very well.  I've been out to ticketmaster on several occasions and have seen little to nothing.  The shows that seemed interesting were either playing at the Florida Theatre or Freebird down at Jax beach.  The only thing I've seen scheduled at the stadium during off-season is an occasional monster truck show.

If we could get one major event/concert in here every month or so and then fill the rest of the time with the Dancing with the Stars on Ice with Boxing Gloves kind of stuff, that's be great.
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JeffreyS

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Re: Urban Projects Struggle To Stay Alive
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2008, 01:30:56 PM »
Sadly Hannah Montana would kick the fudge out of a U2, Rolling Stones double bill anywhere. We get shows but Orlando is always going to get its' share too.
Lenny Smash

fsujax

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Re: Urban Projects Struggle To Stay Alive
« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2008, 01:40:19 PM »
there are a few big country stars coming Geoge Strait later this month and Alan Jackson next month. It's hard for Jax to attract every big name act because we have to compete with Palm Beach/Ft lauderdale/Miami, Tampa and Orlando!  What gets me is when I see big name artist (Lynard Skynard to name one) go to Gainesville and not Jacksonville.

Dapperdan

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Re: Urban Projects Struggle To Stay Alive
« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2008, 02:18:08 PM »
How is Michael Buble' not a great act? That is a  different act to come to Jacksonville, IMO, a lounge singer. Celtic Women is comming, like I said, Van Halen, Blue Man Group, George Straight, Guns N Hoses, Steve Harvey, Hannah Montanna. I don't think there are any really big acts touring right now. So I think that is a pretty good lineup.

second_pancake

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Re: Urban Projects Struggle To Stay Alive
« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2008, 02:49:57 PM »
I know we have to compete with all the other big cities like Orlando...but we should be our own big city, #$%@it!  And yes, it is sad that Hannah Montana is what's considered a big act nowadays ~sigh~.  Dang, even New Kids on the Block was better...nevermind, I can't even believe I was going to say that.
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Webini

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Re: Urban Projects Struggle To Stay Alive
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2008, 03:23:53 PM »
Is it just me or does it seem as though events are fewer now adays in Jax as they were in say, '99?  Or have I just gotten older?

second_pancake

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Re: Urban Projects Struggle To Stay Alive
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2008, 03:28:07 PM »
Is it just me or does it seem as though events are fewer now adays in Jax as they were in say, '99?  Or have I just gotten older?

I'm with you.  I've been here since 1990 and though there are spurts, for the most part it seems as if things have just petered out.
"What objectivity and the study of philosophy requires is not an 'open mind,' but an active mind - a mind able and eagerly willing to examine ideas, but to examine them criticially."

suburbiasucks

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Re: Urban Projects Struggle To Stay Alive
« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2008, 02:03:22 PM »
 Back to the earlier theme in this thread.
Here's a first hand experience from a couple of "artists/bohemians/pioneers", a New York couple in search of cheaper square footage in an urban setting.
 
For over 2 years now we've been trying to get a hold of a downtown Jax building to turn into live/work space. Ready to take on the impossible, we have checked out every vacant building and knocked on every door imaginable. While waiting to hear the news on our latest bid, our hopes are extremely low. Property owners are simply not willing to negotiate. If they can't get the asking price (all of which are unreasonably high), they'll simply board up the building and wait (that usually means wait until the building is dilapidated, then turn it into a parking lot).

One of the properties we were very serious about is city owned. Although in an extremely poor condition, we were more than willing to put all of our money, time and effort into it. If anything we thought the city would be glad that someone was willing to take on such a crazy project, but ...... the price they asked was ... to put it mildly, outrageous! Actually, we thought the price was purposely designed to turn away people like us.

Why do property owners have a such a skewed idea of what downtown Jax really is? Could it be all those grandiose redevelopment plans we hear about over and over again?
Take a closer look at the list of failed downtown projects. Besides the Historic Adaptive Reuse list, hardly any are worth crying after. Most were just vertical gated communities, with their backs turned to the street life, stealing the river views away from the rest of the city (just like that pompous Berkman Plaza).
Life can not be planned or designed on a piece of paper. It has to happen on it's own. It has to be allowed to happen.
Sorry for the rant, but ... this city has a way of frustrating a person more than New York can!

second_pancake

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Re: Urban Projects Struggle To Stay Alive
« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2008, 03:35:29 PM »
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Life can not be planned or designed on a piece of paper. It has to happen on it's own. It has to be allowed to happen.
Sorry for the rant, but ... this city has a way of frustrating a person more than New York can!

Nothing truer has ever been spoken.  Welcome to the forum and to Jax ;)
"What objectivity and the study of philosophy requires is not an 'open mind,' but an active mind - a mind able and eagerly willing to examine ideas, but to examine them criticially."

downtownparks

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Re: Urban Projects Struggle To Stay Alive
« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2008, 05:23:03 PM »
Wow. Great post. You just nailed it from afar. It alls goes back to the leadership in the city. The city could follow any one of a number of examples to see a revitalized core.  Instead we worry about planning for an outer loop and BRT.

Ive said it before, I will say it again. Tony Allegretti for Mayor!!!

raheem942

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Re: Urban Projects Struggle To Stay Alive
« Reply #29 on: January 15, 2008, 11:01:53 AM »
well the calssic backlash of the dieing american realstate industry