Amtrak: Flagler Line Will Happen

[tufsu1]

that doesn't really answer my question jeffrey

[JeffreyS]

just a question to pose...why should the City or JTA spend money to build/re-build Amtrak (or Greyhound for that matter) a new station?

They should relocate Amtrak because their current station may be the biggest embarrassment this city currently endures and they should build a compact transit center at Jax terminal for the benefit creating a more useful transit system.  Then rent Greyhound some space if they have to move.

[acme54321]

Why is St. Augustine planning to build a new terminal at the airport?  What a boner move.

How about here?

[Bativac]

I will believe it when I see it.  Too many years of feet dragging for me to begin holding my breath.

I agree. I'll believe it when I'm sitting on the train.

[Ocklawaha]

The movement of the Amtrak station has as much to do with Amtrak as it does with the City or FDOT. If Amtrak really wanted to move, it would be worked out by now. They are all talk, but at this point have put zero dollars toward the move. While the track, platform and station configuration are being hashed out, and paid for by FDOT. Amtrak hasn't put anything towards the design costs.

Why does this not surprise me? This is simply fallout from the top, IE: President Obama promoting billions of dollars of 'high speed rail' while Amtrak withers on the vine.  Just as the recent editorial in TRAINS MAGAZINE stated, the idea that this country can go from zero to two hundred eighty six in one magical leap is horribly flawed. Until such time as we get someone in the White House, who is sympathetic if not downright enthusiastic about Amtrak's potential, we will continue to fall up the down staircase.

I know my harping on FDOT and JTA is fatiguing, but these issues in regards to Jacksonville simply must be resolved, issues that in some cases (streetcar & Amtrak) are now over 30 years in the dark.

My scorecard on this?

AMTRAK - FAIL
FDOT - FAIL
FLORIDAS CHIEF EXECUTIVE - FAIL
COJ - FAIL
JTA - FAIL
MAYOR BROWN - ? OPPORTUNITY ?

Funding a surface transportation terminal to be used by both government and private carriers is no different then funding, building and operating JIA or JAXPORT.  Never read the menu from the right hand side...

OCK

[tufsu1]

Why is St. Augustine planning to build a new terminal at the airport?  What a boner move.

How about here?

they aren't...they intend to use the old FEC station....but the airport authority wants the station at the airport to create a "true multi-modal hub"

[Ocklawaha]

Why is St. Augustine planning to build a new terminal at the airport?  What a boner move.

How about here?

Actually our placement of the airport plan in this article might have been a bit misleading. YES, St. Augustine studied and considered a terminal across the highway and physically connected to it's airport. With over 6 million annual visitors, St. Augustine is courting several commercial airlines that have shown an interest in the city.

In total the considerations were:

*A station due west of the Fire Station on US - 1 across from the Flagler College (former FEC Ry) buildings and an easy walk into downtown.
 
*A station at the former FEC RY station, which is still standing though the mainline has been removed a few hundred feet south.

*A station at the regional airport.

The winning AMTRAK location is the former FEC RY STATION, which has more then ample parking, and is a nearly turnkey facility.

The Airport station is still being considered as a future commuter rail station (as it should).

Keep in mind that St. Augustine's SUNSHINE BUS is a TRUE national award winning city transit service, and I'm certain they will play a huge role in moving the masses to and from any rail station or the airport. Jacksonville residents wanting a day in the ancient city without the drive can transfer to SUNSHINE BUS at the Avenues Mall.

OCK

[tufsu1]

just a question to pose...why should the City or JTA spend money to build/re-build Amtrak (or Greyhound for that matter) a new station?

They should relocate Amtrak because their current station may be the biggest embarrassment this city currently endures and they should build a compact transit center at Jax terminal for the benefit creating a more useful transit system.  Then rent Greyhound some space if they have to move.

but the city didn't build either of the existing Amtrak or Greyhound stations....the transport provider did.

(keep in mind I'm just playing devil's advocate here)

and to Ock's point.....the new terminals at JIA are paid for by users (departure/arrival taxes) and airline (gate fees)....as for JaxPort, those are usually paid for by bonds, which are repaid using user fees.

Amtrak, so far, has said no to such a surcharge for riders/users. 

[Jaxson]

Our city's leaders are shamefully lazy and lacking vision on this one...

[tufsu1]

Keep in mind that St. Augustine's SUNSHINE BUS is a TRUE national award winning city transit service, and I'm certain they will play a huge role in moving the masses to and from any rail station or the airport. Jacksonville residents wanting a day in the ancient city without the drive can transfer to SUNSHINE BUS at the Avenues Mall.

correct....the recently updated Transit development Plan for Sunshine Bus includes the FEC station as a transfer center....with 5 routes (3 existing and 2 proposed) serving it.

[thelakelander]

just a question to pose...why should the City or JTA spend money to build/re-build Amtrak (or Greyhound for that matter) a new station?

They should relocate Amtrak because their current station may be the biggest embarrassment this city currently endures and they should build a compact transit center at Jax terminal for the benefit creating a more useful transit system.  Then rent Greyhound some space if they have to move.

but the city didn't build either of the existing Amtrak or Greyhound stations....the transport provider did.

(keep in mind I'm just playing devil's advocate here)

and to Ock's point.....the new terminals at JIA are paid for by users (departure/arrival taxes) and airline (gate fees)....as for JaxPort, those are usually paid for by bonds, which are repaid using user fees.

Amtrak, so far, has said no to such a surcharge for riders/users. 

Playing devil's advocate here myself, how would moving the station back to downtown in the name of economic development be any different from giving financial incentives to companies like Everbank and Fidelity for job creation?

[Tacachale]

Unfortunately Brown appears to be getting pulled in two directions here. On the one hand he's committed to his campaign promise of downtown development; getting Amtrack downtown and building a transportation center online may well help with that. However, on the other, he's hearing that this transit center will be an expensive boondoggle (sometimes combined with the theme that any government spending is bad, and that the COJ is virtually incapable of doing anything right).

For the mayor to get behind this, he and his administration need to hear the fair truth. They needs to understand that (1) the transit center is good and would be a benefit to downtown development, but (2) that the current design needs to be tweaked to consolidate it and reduce the cost.

We also need to recognize how big the EverBank deal played in the ultimate decision to move Greyhound as soon as possible.

[Ocklawaha]

So in the interim, move Greyhound into the former black waiting room in the old station....

[tufsu1]

Good analogy Lake....the concept behind the deals would be very similar...let's compare

the Everbank deal brings  1500 employees downtown everyday to a largely empty building....the City pays $2.75 million (subsidizes moving expenses) and $2 million from the state/city when the bank creates 200 new jobs

the Amtrak move would likely cost over $15 million and bring 1500+ riders through Jacksonville every day...but far fewer would get on/off here.

And based on what's happening in NYC right now, it doesn't seem like Amtrak would be interested in paying higher rent

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-12-22/amtrak-says-it-needs-new-york-station-that-may-be-too-costly.html

[tufsu1]

So in the interim, move Greyhound into the former black waiting room in the old station....

that isn't going to happen as long as the Prime is still used as a convention center.