Author Topic: JRTC Greyhound Terminal Design Moving Forward  (Read 25673 times)

Ralph W

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Re: JRTC Greyhound Terminal Design Moving Forward
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2011, 10:45:43 AM »
Who is actually responsible for the design and the traffic flow? Did Greyhound get to put their two cents in? One would think that the people actually involved in operating the business would know what works, what looks good and exactly what location would make the most sense.

Or, is it: "Here's the deal, take it or leave it. We don't need no stinkin' low ridership bum transportation service to our fine city, anyhow!"

Do they need a link to MJ to get the other side of the story?

copperfiend

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Re: JRTC Greyhound Terminal Design Moving Forward
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2011, 11:20:00 AM »
I have come to expect these types of things in this city.

fsujax

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Re: JRTC Greyhound Terminal Design Moving Forward
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2011, 11:27:44 AM »
Greyhound is fully involved with this project. They were at the last DDRB meeting when this came up.

thelakelander

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Re: JRTC Greyhound Terminal Design Moving Forward
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2011, 11:45:25 AM »
Who is actually responsible for the design and the traffic flow? Did Greyhound get to put their two cents in? One would think that the people actually involved in operating the business would know what works, what looks good and exactly what location would make the most sense.

Greyhound is involved and their needs are clearly indicated in what has been presented.  The plan looks like a typical functional layout that could be accommodated in Anyplace, USA.  What has been omitted, overlooked or completely ignored is the community's needs and what works best for the development of a downtown environment.  This is where the DDRB staff, planning department or a similar city entity (Jax really needs an Urban Design Dept., imo) should step in.  At this point, the entity either doesn't exist or doesn't have enough teeth to make a significant impact on the development of a pedestrian scaled built environment.  This, not money, basically separates the haves from the have nots.
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thelakelander

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Re: JRTC Greyhound Terminal Design Moving Forward
« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2011, 11:48:57 AM »
This scares me. A- The design is terriable, B- We dont have funding and dont know if we will ever have the money to complete the entire project. I have a bad feeling that the rest of the center is never going to get built and the  new greyhound station is going to isolated in the middle of nowhere. This is just stupid

Judging on the past, that's most likely were this will eventually go.  It's unfortunate because of the amount of money about to be spent on something we full well know continues to have significant question marks.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Tacachale

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Re: JRTC Greyhound Terminal Design Moving Forward
« Reply #20 on: December 07, 2011, 11:54:35 AM »
Who is actually responsible for the design and the traffic flow? Did Greyhound get to put their two cents in? One would think that the people actually involved in operating the business would know what works, what looks good and exactly what location would make the most sense.

Greyhound is involved and their needs are clearly indicated in what has been presented.  The plan looks like a typical functional layout that could be accommodated in Anyplace, USA.  What has been omitted, overlooked or completely ignored is the community's needs and what works best for the development of a downtown environment.  This is where the DDRB staff, planning department or a similar city entity (Jax really needs an Urban Design Dept., imo) should step in.  At this point, the entity either doesn't exist or doesn't have enough teeth to make a significant impact on the development of a pedestrian scaled built environment.  This, not money, basically separates the haves from the have nots.

I wouldn't get your hopes up on a DDA or similar department coming back anytime soon. Brown's reorganization plan looks like it's really getting punted away the council.

http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2011-12-06/story/mayor-alvin-browns-reorganization-bill-bogged-down-3-committees
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fsujax

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Re: JRTC Greyhound Terminal Design Moving Forward
« Reply #21 on: December 07, 2011, 11:56:15 AM »
or maybe they just really do not care.

thelakelander

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Re: JRTC Greyhound Terminal Design Moving Forward
« Reply #22 on: December 07, 2011, 12:06:43 PM »
I think we all knew the reorganization plan wasn't going to breeze through council.  However, I don't think a full blown DDA is necessary.  We need some people, competent in urban design principles, in positions to have greater influence on the final design and approval of all projects being permitted in the city.  Whatever the goal is for downtown, who ever is approving these things needs to know that and make sure that all projects, big & small, align with those goes at a pedestrian scale level.
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Coolyfett

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Re: JRTC Greyhound Terminal Design Moving Forward
« Reply #23 on: December 07, 2011, 12:29:36 PM »
Wasteful, bland, too spread out. Why are they building it like that. Is it a CENTER or a COMPLEX?
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KenFSU

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Re: JRTC Greyhound Terminal Design Moving Forward
« Reply #24 on: December 07, 2011, 04:55:14 PM »
Why does ever new building design in Jacksonville look like it belongs in Cape Coral?

(That's not a compliment).

TheProfessor

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Re: JRTC Greyhound Terminal Design Moving Forward
« Reply #25 on: December 07, 2011, 11:52:57 PM »
I don't see the point of moving the bus terminal there until the Amtrak trains stop there.  The architecture of the current bus station looks better and it is across from a skyway stop already!!

Ocklawaha

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Re: JRTC Greyhound Terminal Design Moving Forward
« Reply #26 on: December 08, 2011, 12:15:29 AM »
IDIOTS! There is simply no other word in the English language that describes the fool who is at the root of this, the latest JTA Catastrophe in the making.

READ MY LIPS!

THE DAY THAT THE FIRST SHOVEL OF DIRT IS TURNED AT THIS GREYHOUND SITE - IS THE DAY THAT ANY HOPE OF JACKSONVILLE HAVING A REAL TRANSPORTATON CENTER DIES.  The reason being:

JTA, an organization that builds highways and barely understands mass transit, cannot define a 'regional transportation center.' 

JTA'S lead planner apparently has never bothered to notice that no other 'Regional Transportation Center' operates out of 4  independent stations in neighborhood of 5 massive, distinct, and uninspired buildings, scattered over more real estate then the Vatican City, a sovereign nation. 

The City Council, and the local mullet wrapper, have been duped in a game of dumb and dumber. Like a bunch of parrots chewing coca leaves, the JTA proclaims it, the council rubber stamps it, and the media outlets soil themselves in a frenzy of  volcanic, urgent conceit.

Back in the 1970's, I recall a family that lived in the area that I would meet and greet occasionally. The tragic reality of their situation was obvious when one would spot them guiding their '30 something' son through a local grocery store. Their adult child would be decked out in his 'cowboy' costume, complete with toy guns, alternately smiling and shooting at anyone who made eye contact. In the mind of this severely handicapped man, he was a 'real' cowboy and he was saving us from unseen bloodletters and badmen. Such has JTA become, a tragic, rogue agency, leading us into another real world gunfight, dressed up as a mass transit agency. JTA is as clueless about what works, or even identifying what a solution should look like, then that poor cowboy. All the while they are giving 'expert' advice and guidance to a equally uninformed city council.

Deliberate? One will have to consider the ill advised Skyway, that '5 mile system' (which never got to 5 miles)  the one JTA claimed would eventually extend high speed monorail train service from the Atlantic to Baldwin, and from Thomas's Creek to Orange Park. Remember the promises? That little train would be the end of streetcars in America, and Jacksonville's own JTA would blaze the trail and show the way.

How about the merits of building a 26 mile elevated freeway for buses,  right over the top of existing roads and railroads, a vision for ELEVATED BRT.  They imagined their BRT scheme as the transportation of the future, and that it would prove the superiority of buses over rail, once and for all.  JTA told us we really needed this system
at the bargin price of a billion dollars!  Even then, it wouldn't reach the Avenues, Town Center, Orange Park, The Beaches or anywhere north of the Trout River.

We should perhaps consider the inaccessible, multimillion dollar, Southside parking garage. The garage has become symbolic of the failure of JTA to grasp even the most basic concepts.

Anyone remember the Dames Point bridge, the one that every maritime interest on the high seas has condemned as too low? How is that working out for our port?  JTA anyone? Recall if you will the genius at JTA arguing that the bridge could actually be even lower then it is and that marine interests should be grateful for what they've been offered.

Then there was the agency that publically proclaimed that in Charlotte, "The people hate rail, they're demanding more buses."

THESE ARE THE PEOPLE IN  CONTROL OF YOUR TRANSPORTATION FUTURE.

With the first shovel of dirt, all hope of having a true and functioning Transportation Center, which is by definition, a ONE-STOP-SHOP, is gone. Fear not, city council member, the good folks over on Myrtle Avenue are wearing their 'transportation expert' costumes.

"Bang! Bang! Your dead, Jacksonville!"
 
OCKLAWAHA
« Last Edit: December 10, 2011, 09:56:06 PM by Ocklawaha »

JaxNative68

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Re: JRTC Greyhound Terminal Design Moving Forward
« Reply #27 on: December 08, 2011, 06:30:10 AM »
"Like a bunch of parrots chewing coca leaves, the JTA proclaims it, the council rubber stamps it, and the media outlets soil themselves in a frenzy of  volcanic, urgent conceit."  That is a great line!

I could be wrong, but are you giving JTA credit for some of FDOT's work/projects?

Tacachale

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Re: JRTC Greyhound Terminal Design Moving Forward
« Reply #28 on: December 08, 2011, 09:22:16 AM »
If there's no way to stop this now, perhaps energy would be better spent trying to get the rest of the design altered to put the rest of the nodes in a compressed building.

At any rate, have they offered any justification for designing this building where and how they're doing it?
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

thelakelander

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Re: JRTC Greyhound Terminal Design Moving Forward
« Reply #29 on: December 08, 2011, 09:32:40 AM »
Quote
If there's no way to stop this now, perhaps energy would be better spent trying to get the rest of the design altered to put the rest of the nodes in a compressed building.

That could be an option.  However, you would end up with an isolated greyhound bus terminal two blocks north of everything else.  I also wouldn't say that it can't be stopped.  If the mayor's office or council wanted it stopped or the money to built it doesn't materialize, it doesn't happen.

Quote
At any rate, have they offered any justification for designing this building where and how they're doing it?

I'd take this with a grain of salt but it was told to the Mayor's transportation transition committee that Greyhound wanted to be next to I-95 and that it would create some construction jobs.  It was also mentioned that it would be too much trouble to go back and significantly modify the JRTC master plan without delaying construction of Greyhound.  It kind of came off to me as making bad excuses for not doing anything.  Nevertheless, even at this particular site, it still doesn't resolve the poor integration of the building's footprint into that particular downtown block.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali