Author Topic: The Jacksonville Jaguars  (Read 1655849 times)

Peter Griffin

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Re: The Jacksonville Jaguars
« Reply #10215 on: November 06, 2019, 11:27:14 AM »
I just don't get why people have this expectation that we should be going to the playoffs every year.  I mean, it would be awesome, but it's just not the reality of the NFL.

To be fair, there's a LOT of die-hard and avid Jags fans out there. Lots of lukewarm fans, too. Some fairweather fans, and a bunch people who don't care too much but will root for the team.

Only Kerry thinks our tickets should come with a written agreement to win Or your money back, Guaranteed! (TM)

Keith-N-Jax

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Re: The Jacksonville Jaguars
« Reply #10216 on: November 06, 2019, 11:30:37 AM »
If thats the case everything you buy should have a written guarantee. Food, amusement parks, and so on.

Steve

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Re: The Jacksonville Jaguars
« Reply #10217 on: November 06, 2019, 11:32:46 AM »
The fact is that nearly half the league has a sub .500 record over the last 20 years.  The ones that have been +.500 have (or have had) either a HOF QB, a HOF coach, or both (I fucking hate the Pats). 

I mean I guess it's how you want to quantify it.  Giants are sub .500, but have 2 SB wins.  Indy is +.600 and had a first round ballet HOF QB, but only won a single SB in his 14 years on the team.  He did it in 4 with the Broncos who look to be an absolute mess for the foreseeable future.

People want to give us shit because we've only made the AFCC game twice in 20 years.  8 teams haven't made it that far (since 1999) and one of those is the Texans.  Also Since 1999 - only 6 of the 24 teams have been 4 times or more!  2 of those 6 have been 6 times and the Pats have been to 13!

I just don't get why people have this expectation that we should be going to the playoffs every year.  I mean, it would be awesome, but it's just not the reality of the NFL. 

Agree with 90% of this. The reality is this isn't College. In college a 5 loss season is a disaster for most programs and gets coaches fired. In the NFL that leaves you 11-5 and many years will win you the division.

Where I disagree is the non-playoff seasons for the Jags (tossing out 1995):

2000: 7-9
2001: 6-10
2002: 6-10
2003: 5-11
2004: 9-7
2006: 8-8
2008: 5-11
2009: 7-9
2010: 8-8
2011: 5-11
2012: 2-14
2013: 4-12
2014: 3-13
2015: 5-11
2016: 3-13
2018: 5-11

Out of them, there's 1 winning season, 2 .500 seasons, and every other season has been a losing season, and in recent years has been a disaster season. That's the thing - playing devil's advocate and calling 2017 a fluke, every season since 2011 has been a complete mess. Most other franchises will have a few average years in between playoff appearances, not seasons resulting in a top 5 pick.

Keith-N-Jax

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Re: The Jacksonville Jaguars
« Reply #10218 on: November 06, 2019, 11:36:04 AM »
You cant fill a stadium with that type of history. Kudos to the faithfuls that keep going. I used to but school takes priority. Go Jags

Non-RedNeck Westsider

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Re: The Jacksonville Jaguars
« Reply #10219 on: November 06, 2019, 01:16:35 PM »
Most other franchises will have a few average years in between playoff appearances, not seasons resulting in a top 5 pick.

I get what you're saying, but I don't understand why you're throwing out the playoff years and labeling them as 'flukey'. 

Let's look at this a different way:  When we compare the sample size of since '00, we're basically talking about our entire existence as a franchise.  We've had 7 years of playoff appearances since '95.  So you could say we've been to the playoffs about 30% (29.2%) of the time since we've been a franchise. 

All of these franchises are worse:
Washington Redskins   28%
Cincinnati Bengals   27%
Atlanta Falcons   26%
Chicago Bears   26%
New York Jets   24%
Tampa Bay Buccaneers   23%
New Orleans Saints   23%
Detroit Lions   19%
Arizona Cardinals   10%

And these franchises are within 5%:
New York Giants   34%
Carolina Panthers   33%
Green Bay Packers   33%
Los Angeles Chargers   32%
Buffalo Bills   31%
Philadelphia Eagles   30%
Houston Texans   29%

The top 17 teams have been 35% or more with the Cowboys leading the way at 56%

I get the frustration and the 'what have you done for me lately' attitude, but this is truly a TEAM sport, in a salary-capped league that's built for parity. Teams are constantly getting compared to today's Steelers & Patriots (anomalies), the Cowboys are still hanging on to their early 90s championships, and the Giants won 2 SuperBowls with a sub .500 lifetime QB who's probably going into the HOF because of a lucky catch and his last name. 

The reality of the league is that .500 is still pretty much a goal. 


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Kerry

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Re: The Jacksonville Jaguars
« Reply #10220 on: November 06, 2019, 02:59:27 PM »
If thats the case everything you buy should have a written guarantee. Food, amusement parks, and so on.

They do.  Every business on the planet has a return policy if their product doesn't meet your expectations.  Go to any restaurant and not only will they comp your current meal if something goes wrong, but they will usually give you a discount or free meal on your next visit.  It is time pro-sports joined the rest of us.

A few years ago we were at Busch Gardens and the park had to close early due to a staffing error.  They gave us annual passes as compensation.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2019, 03:01:18 PM by Kerry »
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Peter Griffin

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Re: The Jacksonville Jaguars
« Reply #10221 on: November 06, 2019, 03:14:08 PM »
If thats the case everything you buy should have a written guarantee. Food, amusement parks, and so on.

They do.  Every business on the planet has a return policy if their product doesn't meet your expectations.  Go to any restaurant and not only will they comp your current meal if something goes wrong, but they will usually give you a discount or free meal on your next visit.  It is time pro-sports joined the rest of us.

A few years ago we were at Busch Gardens and the park had to close early due to a staffing error.  They gave us annual passes as compensation.

This is not only untrue, it is also an INCREDIBLY entitled point of view to take. Publix has one, but it is certainly not a sustainable business practice for an entertainment venue to say "if you didn't like the performance, you get your money back"

Plus, when a football team loses, there was nothing WRONG with what happened on the field. A football game was played to completion, and a winner emerged rightfully.


Maybe I'm being trolled to death by you, Kerry. I don't know if this character is real anymore. I don't want to believe...

Kerry

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Re: The Jacksonville Jaguars
« Reply #10222 on: November 06, 2019, 03:21:38 PM »
If thats the case everything you buy should have a written guarantee. Food, amusement parks, and so on.

They do.  Every business on the planet has a return policy if their product doesn't meet your expectations.  Go to any restaurant and not only will they comp your current meal if something goes wrong, but they will usually give you a discount or free meal on your next visit.  It is time pro-sports joined the rest of us.

A few years ago we were at Busch Gardens and the park had to close early due to a staffing error.  They gave us annual passes as compensation.

This is not only untrue, it is also an INCREDIBLY entitled point of view to take. Publix has one, but it is certainly not a sustainable business practice for an entertainment venue to say "if you didn't like the performance, you get your money back"

Plus, when a football team loses, there was nothing WRONG with what happened on the field. A football game was played to completion, and a winner emerged rightfully.


Maybe I'm being trolled to death by you, Kerry. I don't know if this character is real anymore. I don't want to believe...

Here is the difference - Publix isn't asking for $250 million.  Also, I never said Money Back or if they lose.  I said 25% back if they were below .500 for the season - but that was just a starting point.  How about a free beer at the next game if they lose their previous game by 14 points or more?

Even companies that come here promising jobs in exchange for corporate welfare still have to produce the jobs.  The City ties performance guarantees to every dollar they hand out - except to the Jags.  We are selling ourselves to cheaply when it comes to the Jags.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2019, 03:43:01 PM by Kerry »
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Steve

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Re: The Jacksonville Jaguars
« Reply #10223 on: November 06, 2019, 03:46:32 PM »
Most other franchises will have a few average years in between playoff appearances, not seasons resulting in a top 5 pick.

I get what you're saying, but I don't understand why you're throwing out the playoff years and labeling them as 'flukey'. 

Let's look at this a different way:  When we compare the sample size of since '00, we're basically talking about our entire existence as a franchise.  We've had 7 years of playoff appearances since '95.  So you could say we've been to the playoffs about 30% (29.2%) of the time since we've been a franchise. 

All of these franchises are worse:
Washington Redskins   28%
Cincinnati Bengals   27%
Atlanta Falcons   26%
Chicago Bears   26%
New York Jets   24%
Tampa Bay Buccaneers   23%
New Orleans Saints   23%
Detroit Lions   19%
Arizona Cardinals   10%

And these franchises are within 5%:
New York Giants   34%
Carolina Panthers   33%
Green Bay Packers   33%
Los Angeles Chargers   32%
Buffalo Bills   31%
Philadelphia Eagles   30%
Houston Texans   29%

The top 17 teams have been 35% or more with the Cowboys leading the way at 56%

I get the frustration and the 'what have you done for me lately' attitude, but this is truly a TEAM sport, in a salary-capped league that's built for parity. Teams are constantly getting compared to today's Steelers & Patriots (anomalies), the Cowboys are still hanging on to their early 90s championships, and the Giants won 2 SuperBowls with a sub .500 lifetime QB who's probably going into the HOF because of a lucky catch and his last name. 

The reality of the league is that .500 is still pretty much a goal. 




It's not, "what have you done for me lately". What I'd love to do when I have some free time is for the last 20 years, count how many times each team hasn't made the playoffs, and what the average number of wins are. An 8-8 or 9-7 season missing the playoffs is a lot different than a 3-13 year.

Steve

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Re: The Jacksonville Jaguars
« Reply #10224 on: November 06, 2019, 03:47:53 PM »
A few years ago we were at Busch Gardens and the park had to close early due to a staffing error.  They gave us annual passes as compensation.

If the Jaguars had to cancel a game after 3 quarters due to whatever reason, then I'd want tickets to another game. I'm with you there.

The rest of this is bananas.

Kerry

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Re: The Jacksonville Jaguars
« Reply #10225 on: November 06, 2019, 06:28:12 PM »
A few years ago we were at Busch Gardens and the park had to close early due to a staffing error.  They gave us annual passes as compensation.

If the Jaguars had to cancel a game after 3 quarters due to whatever reason, then I'd want tickets to another game. I'm with you there.

The rest of this is bananas.

I only brought that up because 'Amusement Park' was specifically mentioned in the counter-argument.  What is so wrong with tying team performance to taxpayers dollars for Lot J?  Is there a genuine concern that we will pay all this money to help shore up the team's finances and they still won't be very good?  If so, what the heck are we doing even funding the Jags?
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Non-RedNeck Westsider

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Re: The Jacksonville Jaguars
« Reply #10226 on: November 06, 2019, 06:31:01 PM »
It's not, "what have you done for me lately". What I'd love to do when I have some free time is for the last 20 years, count how many times each team hasn't made the playoffs, and what the average number of wins are. An 8-8 or 9-7 season missing the playoffs is a lot different than a 3-13 year.

Not you per se, but there's a lot of people who think that because the Pats are in the playoffs every year that it should be the rule and not the exception.

I think I can sort the info from PFR and get it into a spreadsheet to crunch those numbers for you. 

I think that could be an interesting study from someone who might get paid to write about such things:  Which is the better option:  Low key tanking and collecting high-first round talent until the stars align or being a consistent .500 team that rarely has any great season, but also rarely has any horrible seasons.

Because based on the overall playoff %, it seems that a good measure is a 38-42% hit rate into the playoffs - 3 trips out of every 7 years.
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MusicMan

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Re: The Jacksonville Jaguars
« Reply #10227 on: November 11, 2019, 01:27:33 PM »
"2000: 7-9
2001: 6-10
2002: 6-10
2003: 5-11
2004: 9-7
2006: 8-8
2008: 5-11
2009: 7-9
2010: 8-8
2011: 5-11
2012: 2-14
2013: 4-12
2014: 3-13
2015: 5-11
2016: 3-13
2018: 5-11"

Yes but we do have the very best video boards in the NFL.

thelakelander

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Re: The Jacksonville Jaguars
« Reply #10228 on: November 11, 2019, 01:31:18 PM »
Lol, are you sure? How many stadiums have opened or been renovated since the installation of those boards?
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Kerry

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Re: The Jacksonville Jaguars
« Reply #10229 on: November 11, 2019, 09:50:33 PM »
Lol, are you sure? How many stadiums have opened or been renovated since the installation of those boards?

If by best, we mean biggest, we are still #2 in the NFL.  Mercedes Benz stadium is Atlanta dwarfs ours (3X bigger).  However, on a global scale we are 14th.

Remember why Khan wanted the giant video boards in the first place?

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/20/sports/football/daktronics-plays-outsize-role-as-giant-sports-video-displays-proliferate.html

Quote
“What we’re doing is upgrading the experience for our fans,” Khan said. “This is another step in the arms race to get the fans back into the stadium.”

Judging by the empty seats, the giant video boards didn't work.
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