Author Topic: City Council prepares to Halt Mobility Fee  (Read 65912 times)

thelakelander

  • The Jaxson
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 35386
    • Modern Cities
Re: City Council prepares to Halt Mobility Fee
« Reply #30 on: October 07, 2011, 11:00:57 AM »
It's basically where you focus on creating a unique sense of place for the community and you're actual community becomes the main selling point.  With this in mind, policies and projects are implemented that best utilize public resources and ROI.  Here's a decent article I just found on google hinting at these concepts:

Quote
New Urbanists: No Economic Recovery Without Smart Growth

by Angie Schmitt on October 6, 2011

What happened to the United States over the past several years is most commonly described as a recession. By the technical definition of the word we’re two years into a recovery. But it sure doesn’t seem that way.

Meanwhile, a growing chorus of intellectual leaders says the country is experiencing something different than a normal cyclical fluctuation: the end of an epoch.

Leading urban thinkers, from Richard Florida to James Howard Kunstler, believe we have reached the limits of our fossil-fueled, double-mortgaged, McMansion-based economy. Relief won’t come, they say, until America begins confronting the systemic problems that produced the meltdown, including inefficient and unsustainable public infrastructure investments and housing development.

“What were seeing right now is an inability to look at how we live and how it relates to our problems, and financial problems,” said Kunstler Tuesday during a speaking engagement with the Congress for the New Urbanism. “Production homebuilders, mortgage lenders, real estate agents, they are all sitting back now waiting for the, quote, bottom of the housing market to come with the expectation that things will go back to the way they were in 2005.”

But despite massive government expenditures to restart the old economic engine driven by suburban homebuilding, recovery is elusive, Kunstler said. The author of “The Geography of Nowhere” and “The Long Emergency” argues that suburbanization has been a multi-decade American experiment, and a failed one.

Kunstler is joined in that perspective by Charles Marohn, the director of non-profit group Strong Towns. A new report from Strong Towns places blame for the lagging economy directly on policies that favor low-density housing, fossil-fuel dependence and publicly-subsidized overbuilt infrastructure.

In its new booklet Curbside Chat, Strong Towns asserts that since the 1970s, the suburban growth that powered America’s economy operated much like a Ponzi scheme. In towns across the country, politicians traded the short-term payoffs of sprawling development — namely increased taxes — for long-term maintenance obligations that are just now coming due. And they’re coming up short.



As evidence, the group holds up the fact that the American Society of Civil Engineers estimates the cost of necessary infrastructure maintenance at $2.2 trillion.

“Over a life cycle, a city frequently receives just a dime or two of revenue for each dollar of liability,” says Marohn in the report. “In the near term, revenue grows, while the corresponding maintenance obligations —- which are not counted on the public balance sheet —- are a generation away.”

The suburban sprawl bubble has now burst, he said.

“Our problem was not, and is not, a lack of growth; Our problem is sixty years of unproductive growth,” said Marohn. “The American pattern of development does not create real wealth; it creates the illusion of wealth. Today we are in the process of seeing that illusion destroyed and with it the prosperity we have come to take for granted.”

Strong Towns has taken it one step further, outlining 10 development strategies to help get the country back in the black. Among its recommendations are radically altering road and street standards, adopting form-based codes and tailoring capital investment plans to maximize public return on that investment.

“The way forward for our communities is to adopt a set of rational responses to the current situation,” says Strong Towns. “This will include shedding some ‘dead’ ideas from the recent past and embracing a broad set of strategies to start making America’s communities more productive. Local leaders need to position their communities for change if they want to be prosperous in the coming decades.”

“The project of suburbia is over,” said Kunstler to CNU attendees. “Even though the project of suburbia is still running. There’s no building going on. If you do see construction in these places, it’s just the last twitching.”

“We now have to do things differently.”

http://dc.streetsblog.org/2011/10/06/new-urbanists-no-economic-recovery-without-smart-growth/#more-116583#more-267974

"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Ocklawaha

  • Phd. Ferroequinology
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10448
  • Monster of Mobility! Ocklawaha is Robert Mann
    • LIGHT RAIL JACKSONVILLE
Re: City Council prepares to Halt Mobility Fee
« Reply #31 on: October 07, 2011, 12:08:17 PM »
Streetcar construction has shown itself nationwide to return $14 dollars for every $1 dollar invested. Will shelving the mobility fee return even more? Doubtful at best.

Since the mobility plan is divided up into mobility districts, if we must have a moratorium, why not by district. A good example would be Riverside, 5 Points, Brooklyn and the downtown core are already pretty dense, and they stand to gain the most from keeping the mobility fee intact.  Keeping the fee in these districts for the construction of the streetcar line would allow us to make a side by side compareson of returns on our investments. Downtown - Riverside would get it's streetcar, and the rest of the city would get the fee free incentive to build.
With both programs in effect, we could tell at a glance which one REALLY made things bloom allowing us to make the necessary adjustments in permitting for growth.

The mobility plan and fees are in the national spotlight, I've even been asked by a major transportation industry magazine to do a story on it. Completely shutting it down will forever distroy confidence in our city's ability to pioneer and lead the way.

Where is the 'TEA PARTY' on this one? Has anyone informed them of this hidden tax increase and subsidy of the building industry?  One has to ask how many of these supposedly suspended projects are really on hold because the city stands to collect a few thousand dollars up front?  From my own experience, a $2500 dollar impact fee didn't make any difference at all in the construction or finance of my house. Of course if we repeal the mobility fees, we'll get to refund many thousands of dollars to the various contractors currently building around the city, "Hello, TEA PARTY?"

Finally the mayor has expressed a vision for Light Rail, this is a vision that will die with the mobility plan.

OCKLAWAHA

Steve_Lovett

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 118
Re: City Council prepares to Halt Mobility Fee
« Reply #32 on: October 07, 2011, 01:12:33 PM »
I'll vouch for Robin Lumb as well.  I had the opportunity to talk with him about Monroe Street a month or two ago.  I'm of the opinion that he and most of the council in general wants to do what's best for the community. 

However, there is an economic education process that needs to happen in Jacksonville.  We're going to have to learn to look outside of the borders of Duval County and the First Coast to see what is going on in the world outside of us.  Most of our leaders still believe in a ponzi scheme oriented growth based economic model that is currently being naturally corrected by today's market conditions.  The city's that have the ability to take advantage of a quality-of-life based economic model will be the ones to succeed going forward.  Many like Charlotte, Salt Lake City, etc. have recognized this years ago so we have some catching up to do.

If ever there is a time to promote planning and "design", as a civic priority it's now as the world recognizes and commemorates the design and art of Steve Jobs. He built a massive corporate force, by thinking differently and prioritizing design. His products were things people wanted, because they were "cool", innovative, different, and well-designed. Some can argue whether Apple's products were "better", but no one can argue the transformative power of their design appeal. Apple is proof that quality design and innovation can power a robust economic revolution.

These same facts apply to our cities. As Apple has led the technological revolution and become an economic force through design, mid-level cities like Austin and Portland have become powerhouses in attracting educated workers, innovating, and creating a superior quality of life. Even southern cities have emerged and innovated - Savannah has recaptured its once-rich history and celebrated it's architecture and public spaces, and Greenville has invested in its downtown and civic spaces and risen from an ordinary textile-driven town to become one of the nations most innvoative and desirable cities. These transformations have been design and planning-led, and are sustainable building blocks - and create places that people just want to (or feel like they have to) be - resulting in long term economic growth & attractiveness, and cultural success. 

Without recognizing this fact, on issues like Monroe Street, the mobility plan/growth management, the design of our urban spaces, how we value/prioritize our public riverfront, etc. Jacksonville will not be competitive -- ever.

dougskiles

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1502
Re: City Council prepares to Halt Mobility Fee
« Reply #33 on: October 07, 2011, 01:18:36 PM »
Since the mobility plan is divided up into mobility districts, if we must have a moratorium, why not by district. A good example would be Riverside, 5 Points, Brooklyn and the downtown core are already pretty dense, and they stand to gain the most from keeping the mobility fee intact.  Keeping the fee in these districts for the construction of the streetcar line would allow us to make a side by side compareson of returns on our investments. Downtown - Riverside would get it's streetcar, and the rest of the city would get the fee free incentive to build.
With both programs in effect, we could tell at a glance which one REALLY made things bloom allowing us to make the necessary adjustments in permitting for growth.

Normally I would be in favor of anything that provides the urban core an opportunity to separate itself from the suburbs, however, in this case we would be doing the exact opposite of what the mobility plan is intended to do. We would be encouraging more sprawl because it would be cheaper (no fee).

However - if this type of thing could be done to guarantee NO more infrastructure improvements in the areas that choose not to participate in the Mobility Plan, then it would be a good thing.

urbaknight

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 830
Re: City Council Prepares to Halt Mobility Fee
« Reply #34 on: October 07, 2011, 02:30:57 PM »
If they overturn the mobility fee, they're basically canceling the whole 2030 mobility plan. If they do that, I'm afraid I'll have to leave town and look for a "real city" That I can afford to live in, because I need mass transit and walkability to get around. I had it in North Jersey and I'm thinking" I should've never left the Northeast. Please get this right COJ; And stop overturning the few good ideas that you come up with!

peestandingup

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1406
Re: City Council Prepares to Halt Mobility Fee
« Reply #35 on: October 07, 2011, 02:46:36 PM »
If they overturn the mobility fee, they're basically canceling the whole 2030 mobility plan. If they do that, I'm afraid I'll have to leave town and look for a "real city" That I can afford to live in, because I need mass transit and walkability to get around. I had it in North Jersey and I'm thinking" I should've never left the Northeast. Please get this right COJ; And stop overturning the few good ideas that you come up with!

They'll find a way to cancel it. This is why I've never put too much thought into this plan or got my hopes up. Because at the end of the day, you've still got the same people with the same tired mindsets running the show.

I dunno. Jax could be such an amazing place, but I've almost given up on it entirely. Obviously any city that has this much sprawl & will tear down entire neighborhoods at the drop of a hat has no vision & isn't capable of smart design planning. They're obviously only interested in the status quo & trying to maintain this unsustainable structure through "tax revenues". It's pure insanity.

Sprawl & automobile/oil-based growth has came to an end. Any smart city out there is hip to that & is dealing with it. Apparently Jax didn't get that memo & still thinks you can grow economies that way. Well you can't. And not to mention, it's a terrible burden on people in general in a number of ways.

I dunno guys. I honestly sometimes think we're just whacking each other off in here & at the end of the day, the goons who run this town will ultimately have their way with us all. As soon as something good actually happens, about 3 horrible things happen that erases that good & takes us further back.

simms3

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3482
  • Time has come
Re: City Council prepares to Halt Mobility Fee
« Reply #36 on: October 07, 2011, 02:51:23 PM »
What's happening is related purely to the economy.  I had this discussion with someone this morning...in very rough times people are still willing to throw money at our schools, no matter how much of a waste that ends up being, but they are reluctant to spend public money or pay "fees" for anything else, especially public transit.

The irony is that the only thing that has any possibility of being built right now in Jacksonville is apartments.  Institutional and other multi-family investors are generally very large fans of transit, density, and walkability as that boosts their potential rental revenue and helps their developments.  The complainers must be developers and landholders who have all this land and control all these halted master-planned developments, and they must think that getting rid of the mobility fee will somehow allow them to resume whatever their plans were.

Someone is trying to force the council's hand here.  I doubt they would consider repealing it if there were no complainers.

This goes back to a point, as well, that I have made repeatedly on this site.  Jacksonville is a very unsophisticated real estate market that lacks deep pockets and cutting edge developers/investors.  Developers/owners in Jacksonville would not know what to do or how to react if public transit actually happened down there.  The city barely knows what to do.  I have heard stories about investors coming into town from larger cities literally mowing over the city, getting practically everything or most of what they wanted...and since no transit is happening, the best developments are cheap sprawl things.

Most of the big guys are exiting or not increasing their investments in smaller-than-top-20 markets in the US, but in the south there are two very notable exceptions where everyone wants to be: Charlotte and Austin.  Both cities play above their league and government works really well with the private sector there.  For some reason, the big investors can see eye to eye and actually have good talks with city officials in those two cities, but I can tell you people kind of look down on Jacksonville city officials and local investors as unsophisticated, "good ol boys", not as highly educated, etc etc.  You would think that would be an advantage, but it actually makes things more difficult.  Plus major loan originators and investors like PMCC, AimCo, and Metlife are throwing money at destination cities with walkable streets and density (and current or future transit options).  They, along with young professionals and the college educated, prefer vibrant cities where ideas are easily shared and life is more exciting.  Jacksonville fits no categories, unfortunately, so it's harder to get institutional financing and harder to land exciting developments that will be filled with wealthier and more upwardly mobile professionals.
Bothering locals and trolling boards since 2005

thelakelander

  • The Jaxson
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 35386
    • Modern Cities
Re: City Council prepares to Halt Mobility Fee
« Reply #37 on: October 07, 2011, 03:00:51 PM »
Quote
...Plus major loan originators and investors like PMCC, AimCo, and Metlife are throwing money at destination cities with walkable streets and density (and current or future transit options).  They, along with young professionals and the college educated, prefer vibrant cities where ideas are easily shared and life is more exciting.  Jacksonville fits no categories...

That's the quality-of-life based economic structure I mentioned our public investment needs to be going into.  The city's that build themselves as places people want to spend time in will continue to pull away from those who believe the 1990s are coming back.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

JeffreyS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5946
  • Demand Evidence and Think Critically.
Re: City Council prepares to Halt Mobility Fee
« Reply #38 on: October 07, 2011, 03:08:56 PM »
How can the leaders in Jax look at Charlotte 1950 same as Jax, 1970 same urban decay as Jax and now booming urban money making machine and not want to follow in that type of development?

 
Lenny Smash

Garden guy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 941
Re: City Council Prepares to Halt Mobility Fee
« Reply #39 on: October 07, 2011, 05:23:01 PM »
Is'nt this moratorium of fees kind of like defunding some of our infrastructure? Is'nt this a problem that we already have?..Also...is this like saying i bought a boat but paying for the gas is going to break me so i dont' want to pay for that part?....If fees or a tax is causing a company to not thrive...they are doing something very wrong...

dougskiles

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1502
Re: City Council prepares to Halt Mobility Fee
« Reply #40 on: October 07, 2011, 06:01:32 PM »
The complainers must be developers and landholders who have all this land and control all these halted master-planned developments, and they must think that getting rid of the mobility fee will somehow allow them to resume whatever their plans were.

Quote
OFFICE OF THE CITY COUNCIL

 

CHERYL L. BROWN                                                                                                        117 WEST DUVAL STREET, SUITE 425

            DIRECTOR                                                                                                                                                                                 4TH FLOOR, CITY HALL

   OFFICE (904) 630-1452                                                                                                                                                          JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA  32202

     FAX (904) 630-2906                                                                                                                                                                                                               

  E-MAIL: CLBROWN@coj.net

 

Finance Committee Agenda Meeting Minutes

October 4, 2011

9:30 a.m.

 

Topic:  Finance Committee agenda meeting

 

Location:  Conference Room A, City Hall – St. James Building; 117 West Duval Street,

     Suite 425

 

In attendance:  Council Members Clark (Chair), Anderson, Boyer and Schellenberg

Peggy Sidman and Jason Gabriel – Office of General Counsel; Kirk Sherman and Janice Billy – Council Auditor’s Office; Lin White and Bob Williams – Public Works Department; Chief Moreland – Fire and Rescue Department; Maxine Person, David Kilcrease and Andrea Smith – Sheriff’s Office; Jessica Deal – Mayor’s Office; Stan Johnson,  Sonia Johnson, BeLinda Peeples, Debbie Delgado and Bridgette Green - ECAs; Jessica Stephens – Legislative Services Division; Jeff Clements – Council Research Division; Chris Warren – Jacksonville Chamber of Commerce; Curtis Hart, Chris Hagen and Mike Herzburg – Northeast Florida Builders Association

 

Meeting Convened:  9:32 a.m.

 

Chairman Clark convened the meeting and reviewed the Auditor’s marked agenda which included 11 items to be deferred, 8 items ready for action and 17 items to be read a second time and re-referred.

 

2011-89 (appropriation for Martin Luther King Jr. parade: the sponsor will need to amend to reflect the current fiscal year.

 

2011-300 (dissolving EBO office and transferring functions to other offices): Chairman Clark will recommend that it be withdrawn and taken up in the administrative reorganization.

 

2011-323 (JSO stop station and substation agreements): Maxine Person of JSO requested one more deferral; the bill may be withdrawn at the next meeting.

 

2011-379 (appropriation for construction of 3 temporary Fire Department facilities): Peggy Sidman explained that the FY11-12 budget requires that matching funds for grants that do not materialize be returned to their fund of origin rather than used as proposed in this ordinance.  Chairman Clark recommended that the bill be withdrawn and a separate bill specific to a permanent station for the Bartram Park location be introduced.   Council Member Boyer stated that a private developer is donating the property for the Bartram Park location.  In answer to a question Fire Chief Moreland stated that a fire station structure costs approximately $2.3 million, plus an additional $2 million for vehicles and equipment, plus the operational cost of staffing.

 

2011-617 (moratorium on collection of mobility fees): Curtis Hart stated that he had met with Council Members Crescimbeni and Boyer since yesterday’s Rules Committee meeting and has worked out a solution to their concerns.  The Office of General Counsel has worked out language for a hold-harmless and indemnification agreement for developers to sign when they take the fee waiver.  Mike Herzberg stated that Rep. Mike Weinstein will be introducing a development fee waiver bill in the 2012 legislative session that will specifically permit what is being proposed here.
 

Council Member Anderson requested the Chairman to appoint a Finance subcommittee on parking garages; Mr. Clark will appoint the subcommittee at the committee meeting with Mr. Anderson as chairman.

 

Meeting Adjourned:  9:47 a.m.

 

 

Minutes:  Jeff Clements, Council Research

                 10.4.11   Posted 3:00 p.m.

Tapes:      Finance agenda meeting– LSD

                 10.4.11

Materials:   Auditor’s marked Finance agenda

     10.4.11

Anyone care to guess who Mr. Herzberg works for?

dougskiles

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1502
Re: City Council prepares to Halt Mobility Fee
« Reply #41 on: October 07, 2011, 07:41:28 PM »
Yep.

City Council can't find a way to release $5 million of the historic preservation trust for the Laura Street Trio project, but has no problem giving these groups a free ride.

Both are smart talented businessman.  Too bad we can't turn those talents to rebuilding the urban core.

north miami

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 967
Re: City Council prepares to Halt Mobility Fee
« Reply #42 on: October 07, 2011, 07:42:59 PM »
Ardent development interests "joined at the hip" with local,regional government.

The "Public" transfixed,unaware of it's role in......granting........'vesting'..........development "Rights",habitual adolescent  marching to the beat of "Inevitable Growth" narrative.

Current events simply the latest Narrative Chapter.

Awkward Teen years,growth (ahem....) spurts.


thelakelander

  • The Jaxson
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 35386
    • Modern Cities
Re: City Council prepares to Halt Mobility Fee
« Reply #43 on: October 07, 2011, 07:44:03 PM »
seems like here is the problem.

too many people with connections in the real estate and development industries being appointed to positions where it would be impossible for them not to have a conflict of interest.

Pretty much.  The mobility plan taskforce was purposely littered with them.  They got the original mobility fee slashed in half and now they want to pass all of the costs for their negative impacts to you and me.  When you have people with a conflict of interest constantly in the council's ear its easy to understand how one who may not be generally educated on a particular issue can be easily persuaded.

« Last Edit: October 07, 2011, 07:46:54 PM by thelakelander »
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

thelakelander

  • The Jaxson
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 35386
    • Modern Cities
Re: City Council prepares to Halt Mobility Fee
« Reply #44 on: October 07, 2011, 07:48:32 PM »
Yep.

City Council can't find a way to release $5 million of the historic preservation trust for the Laura Street Trio project, but has no problem giving these groups a free ride.

Both are smart talented businessman.  Too bad we can't turn those talents to rebuilding the urban core.

All disguised in the in the name of "job creation" and "putting people back to work."
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali