City Council prepares to Halt Mobility Fee

[iMarvin]

on behalf of all the rest of us who will never use that bit of road, you are welcome, imarvin.

Well sorry, but the whole city pays for things like this. We've all paid for roads we don't use. And I don't even use this road that much (about once a month).

I drive on that stretch about once or twice a week.  It's about time to resurface it.  I have no problem with maintaining and improving existing infrastructure.  There's just a huge ongoing cost associated with it, which is why I'm against building new highways for the sake of opening someone's property up for development at the public's long term expense. 

I noticed they also mentioned sidewalks.  As wide as that highway is, there are only sidewalks on the east side of it.  So I hope they're creating new sidewalks on the west side.

I don't like new roads either. I have thought this road needed to be re-surfaced for at least a year (probably more). That's why I'm happy about it. Plus, this is going to make the whole road better, not just the asphalt.

[iMarvin]

^So realisitcally how much do you think we could do with 4 million? I don't see us being able to build anymore than 1.5 miles with that much.

Depends on the corridor and the conditions you can play with.  If you can find existing track to utilize, you've saved a ton of money.  If you're willing to buy another city's used cars, you can stack some cash.  If you're willing to have stops instead of stations, you can keep a little money in your pockets. 

Starting from scratch, I'd be hesitant to say something significant in Jax would come in around $4 million/mile.  However, if tracks were reinstalled on the old F&J ROW (city owned between Springfield and the Eastside) or portions of the S-Line, you could probably get it done in that range.  This would be because the city owns most of the old rail ROW and make the assumption that the line would be no-frills.  Unfortunately, ridership would suffer because you aren't hitting many compact centers of activity.

This is what I thought. I can't see where 4 million would do anything for a starter line. I see this as a much better use of the money.

[thelakelander]

$4 million would go a long way to helping cyclist and pedestrians being able to cross FDOT's wide arterial highways.  With that amount of cash, you could get a couple of pedestrian overpasses built over the Arlington Expressway to keep local residents from playing frogger with that roadway.  They could also build a nice multiuse path paralleling Southside, that would be well used by the thousands of residents adjacent to this road.  Nevertheless, this is probably from FDOT's maintenance pot and that's pretty much what this particular project is.

[iMarvin]

^So realisitcally how much do you think we could do with 4 million? I don't see us being able to build anymore than 1.5 miles with that much.

Depends on the corridor and the conditions you can play with.  If you can find existing track to utilize, you've saved a ton of money.  If you're willing to buy another city's used cars, you can stack some cash.  If you're willing to have stops instead of stations, you can keep a little money in your pockets. 

Starting from scratch, I'd be hesitant to say something significant in Jax would come in around $4 million/mile.  However, if tracks were reinstalled on the old F&J ROW (city owned between Springfield and the Eastside) or portions of the S-Line, you could probably get it done in that range.  This would be because the city owns most of the old rail ROW and make the assumption that the line would be no-frills.  Unfortunately, ridership would suffer because you aren't hitting many compact centers of activity.

This is what I thought. I can't see where 4 million would do anything for a starter line. I see this as a much better use of the money.

second only to burning it

If you drive down this road, you would see that the road is in bad shape. The road needs to be resurfaced. 

[iMarvin]

http://jacksonville.com/opinion/blog/400669/jeff-brumley/2011-10-26/fdot-announces-resurfacing-about-3-miles-southside
$4,000,000 for improvements 2.8 miles of generic road on southside boulevard. How far would $4 million go towards streetcar which actually generates new development and investors and riders?

It wouldn't do much. I've seen Lake (thelakelander) give many examples of streetcar lines and I've never seen any cheaper than 10 million and mile.

Except that you don't have to replace the trolley line every 4 years.

No one has to say:

"that trolley is in really bad shape in that section! I have hoped they would fix this line for forever"

So it actually goes much further than the temporary bandage on the asphalt road.

I agree but a streetcar isn't going to be in that area anytime soon and the improvements were needed.

We also need the streetcar in the area that I live in.  So I guess its all about how we pick our priorities.  Your road won.

I don't live in that area. There are things that need to be done right in the area that I live in.

I don't live on the Southside.  There are things that need to be done right in the area that I live in.

What???

[iMarvin]

If you walked through the urban core, you would see that the 60 year old infrastructure is in bad shape.  The street car lines need to be restored.

I agree with you but this amount of money would do very little for a streetcar line.

[iMarvin]

If you walked through the urban core, you would see that the 60 year old infrastructure is in bad shape.  The street car lines need to be restored.

I agree with you but this amount of money would do very little for a streetcar line.

how much, legitimately is it doing for southside boulevard as a whole?

As a whole, I don't think it would do much. But for the stretch between Atlantic and Touchton, I can see this making the street more pedestrian friendly and easier to drive. For development, I don't think it will do anything because the area is pretty much built out.

[iMarvin]

what do you mean, what?

I don't understand why you copied my statement. My point was that things need to be done all over town. This city is too big landwise for every area of town to get projects completed right when they need to be completed. I don't see the point in complaining about this because a) this needs to happen and b) these things happen all over town.

[JeffreyS]

4 million would be very meaningful.  The budget for the first Riverside (King Street) to Downtown line is 50 million so almost 10%.  I think Phase on is closer to 20 million so 25%.  I do not think these projects should be compared head to head.  The road we made our bed lets just cut back on making more.  The streetcar we have not yet taken advantage of but we need to start.

[dougskiles]

I don't have problem with FDOT maintaining infrastructure, but this should serve as a powerful example of how expensive these big roads are to maintain and why it is not fiscally responsible to propose building more of them.

[tufsu1]

on behalf of all the rest of us who will never use that bit of road, you are welcome, imarvin.

Well sorry, but the whole city pays for things like this. We've all paid for roads we don't use. And I don't even use this road that much (about once a month).

I drive on that stretch about once or twice a week.  It's about time to resurface it.  I have no problem with maintaining and improving existing infrastructure.  There's just a huge ongoing cost associated with it, which is why I'm against building new highways for the sake of opening someone's property up for development at the public's long term expense. 

I noticed they also mentioned sidewalks.  As wide as that highway is, there are only sidewalks on the east side of it.  So I hope they're creating new sidewalks on the west side.

exactly Lake...the saddest thing is that FDOT came through and resurfaced Southside down near Philips a few years ago....they regraded areas for better stormwater and all...but didn't bother to add sidewalks...or crosswalks and ped signals near the mall for that matter...I see folks crossing from the office park to the mall every day and hope that nobody gets hit!

[iMarvin]

what do you mean, what?

I don't understand why you copied my statement. My point was that things need to be done all over town. This city is too big landwise for every area of town to get projects completed right when they need to be completed. I don't see the point in complaining about this because a) this needs to happen and b) these things happen all over town.

I don't really agree with your point, actually.  These things do not happen all over town.  They happen in the newer parts of town, which is an ever expanding circle that creeps outward over the decades.  And anytime discussion is introduced which points this out, someone pipes in with how their brand new neighborhood needs the money.

As though their needs were the only ones that mattered, and that we should all just understand why their needs should be met first.

Well, I dont agree, personally.

We need to start spending responsibly, and I don't know why the historic core gets to go 60 years without any goddam maintenance, but everyone agrees that obviously something on southside cant experience the same lack of maintenance for a while.

ya know?

Yeah I know. I'm pretty much on the fence about this. I feel like all parts of town deserve to be maintained, but the suburbs cost more to maintain for obvious reasons. I think more money does get put into the newer areas of town, but the core has had a few projects lately also. Stockton, Jefferson, Laura, and Main Streets were all improved in the last 2 years. Either way, I do agree with you about us needing to start spending responsibly.

[Dog Walker]

I hear that the 2030 Mobility Plan won a national award.

I think we should contact the group that gave it out, and tell them that council was just making a cruel joke to the people of JAX; And furthermore they should be publicly stripped of the award and forced to apologize to everyone affected.

The mobility plan and fee won an award from the APA FL chapter last month, and I believe that it has been nominated for an award by the national APA, which would be given next April. 

In my opinion -

Even with the moratorium the mobility plan and fee still might win that national award.  If the moratorium is just for one year, then the award would be deserved.  But if the city never enacts the mobility fee, then the national award should probably go someplace else.

We all know deep down, based on history, the moratorium is here to stay, unless we can manage to elect a better council.

Actually there is language in the moratorium legislation that lifts it automatically after twelve months.  There is also a provision that puts a time limit on the completion of the projects depending on their size so that a builder could not put in for the fee waiver and then not build the project for a few years.

We can thank Ms. Boyer for refining this to keep it from being abused.

[urbaknight]

I hear that the 2030 Mobility Plan won a national award.

I think we should contact the group that gave it out, and tell them that council was just making a cruel joke to the people of JAX; And furthermore they should be publicly stripped of the award and forced to apologize to everyone affected.

The mobility plan and fee won an award from the APA FL chapter last month, and I believe that it has been nominated for an award by the national APA, which would be given next April. 

In my opinion -

Even with the moratorium the mobility plan and fee still might win that national award.  If the moratorium is just for one year, then the award would be deserved.  But if the city never enacts the mobility fee, then the national award should probably go someplace else.

We all know deep down, based on history, the moratorium is here to stay, unless we can manage to elect a better council.

Actually there is language in the moratorium legislation that lifts it automatically after twelve months.  There is also a provision that puts a time limit on the completion of the projects depending on their size so that a builder could not put in for the fee waiver and then not build the project for a few years.

We can thank Ms. Boyer for refining this to keep it from being abused.

Well that's good news. I still don't like it, but I thought it would have been worse.

[Lunican]

With 12 newly abandoned strip centers, it would be interesting to hear some opinions from the moratorium supporters on the council.

More empty strip malls coming to a neighborhood near you:

All Food Lion stores on the First Coast, including a dozen in Jacksonville, are closing, company officials announced Wednesday night. The stores will be closed within 30 days, the company said.

Approximately 900 Florida employees of the chain will be affected with about 450 of those coming from Jacksonville locations, according to Food Lion spokeswoman Christy Phillips-Brown.

Stores in Clay, St. Johns, Nassau, Baker and Alachua counties are also closing. In addition, the Food Lion in Waycross is among the Georgia stores slated to be closed.

The company will convert its Food Lion in Lake City to a Harveys store. All of the other stores in Florida are closing.

http://jacksonville.com/news/florida/2012-01-11/story/food-lion-closing-all-first-coast-stores