Author Topic: Toll It and They Will Come?  (Read 7025 times)

north miami

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Re: Toll It and They Will Come?
« Reply #30 on: August 25, 2011, 06:06:09 AM »

It is fascinating to see that "the public" is stuck in a merge lane so to speak..........always in the react mode.

Our own Ms.Marty Lanahan,Florida Transportation Commission (who knew of the Commission!?!?) has advocated for tolls.


Dashing Dan

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Re: Toll It and They Will Come?
« Reply #31 on: August 25, 2011, 08:05:25 AM »
If all of these projects are feasible as toll facilities, that would be one thing. 

If the tolls are just a sham, then that would be something else.
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.  - Benjamin Franklin

tufsu1

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Re: Toll It and They Will Come?
« Reply #32 on: August 25, 2011, 08:34:58 AM »
Our own Ms.Marty Lanahan,Florida Transportation Commission (who knew of the Commission!?!?) has advocated for tolls.

as has just about every transportation financiang expert in the country

JeffreyS

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Re: Toll It and They Will Come?
« Reply #33 on: August 25, 2011, 09:44:47 AM »
Tolls may be fine on a worthwhile project. The outer beltway is not a worthwhile project for Duval.
Lenny Smash

thelakelander

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Re: Toll It and They Will Come?
« Reply #34 on: August 25, 2011, 09:51:43 AM »
Tolls are fine but they should be higher, imo.  They should pay for their actual cost on the taxpayer instead of specific roadway capital and maintenance costs.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Dashing Dan

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Re: Toll It and They Will Come?
« Reply #35 on: August 25, 2011, 10:29:03 AM »
Toll facilities create their own patterns of roadway and land development.  There's an economic incentive to create choke points and to not have parallel routes.  The Dame Point bridge is a perfect example of this.

If you're just pretending that the tolls are paying for the roads, then the development pattern will not be affected so much.

If you're talking about HOT lanes, that's not really about paying for a road.  HOT lanes are more of a way for rationing capacity.
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.  - Benjamin Franklin

thelakelander

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Re: Toll It and They Will Come?
« Reply #36 on: August 25, 2011, 10:33:20 AM »
When I speak of "actual costs" I'm talking about what you are trying to describe.  Schools, Parks, Fire/Police, Library, more local roads to feed the beast, water/sewer, the long term maintenance of these things and the workforce/pensions that come along with them.  A chunk of these costs should be lumped into the toll too.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2011, 10:52:45 AM by thelakelander »
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

cline

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Re: Toll It and They Will Come?
« Reply #37 on: August 25, 2011, 10:37:08 AM »
A chunk of these costs should be lumped into the toll too.

They should and if they were none of these beltways would ever be built as it would be cost prohibitive.

north miami

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Re: Toll It and They Will Come?
« Reply #38 on: September 01, 2011, 08:50:31 PM »

the Beltway will provide critical,established future White Flight need.

north miami

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Re: Toll It and They Will Come?
« Reply #39 on: September 09, 2011, 11:47:39 PM »
Now...as for the Branan Field-Chafee Expressway (BFCX) itself....

The road has been on maps since the mid-1970's.....and has been analyzed as a toll road for at least 10 years.

The Outer Beltway showed up somewhere in the late 1990's....and as north miami has opined in many posts, it may very well have been drawn up by development interests in southern Clay County....but it also fit neatly into FDOT's plans, as they knew there was no money to replace the existing Shands Bridge....so hey, why not just extend the expressway, connect it around to I-95, toll it, and thereby have the revenue stream needed to afford a new


Why,I could play the Role of Planner & Consultant!

In fact a clearly depicted "beltway" 'showed up' on local government planning maps in the early 70's.And why is this aspect so significant,hopefully not discussed?
Shands Bridge funding narrative a disservice.