Jacksonville mayor comes out against new toll road

[Dashing Dan]

Given US DOT transportation planning requirements, I simply cannot see how FDOT or Clay County will be able to shove this project down the throat of the Mayor of Jacksonville.  The numbers don't work.

you know as well as I do that USDOT requirements are based on what a given MPO has adopted...and there you have it.

By what stretch of the imagination is this a cost feasible project?

[north miami]

^Our TPO wants the Outer Beltway.  Its been on their LRTP for years.

plus its a top TPO priority project,,,

fact is the 15-mile Branan Field-Chafee Expressway (precursor to the full 45 mile outer beltway) has been on maps since the late 1970s.

Fact is Clay County BC Sector plan proceedings dwindled to a handful of vested ( or soon to be vested!) interests.One in the room had the same last name as one who would become FDOT Director years later.A Clay native.
Fascinating how such insights,"news" isn't........

TPO,MPO joined at the hip with development boosters,related key landowner drivers.Lake Asbury Sector Plan (ROUND ONE) a classic example of the Beltway Boosters facing Clay Citizen opposition.

Trivia question......when did the window for legally binding "NO BUILD" come.....and go.

beltway has been on Clay maps in fact since at least early 70's/Local Government Planning Act.Reinhold a key driver.I recall too gadflys such as Bettyjane Tripplett.
current roadway alignment greatly gerrymandered from the original gracefull arc depicted on the 70's map and even fairly recent placed before DCA.Each twist and turn of the gerrymandered alignment is telling.

[north miami]

Now, don't get me wrong....I'd rather we stop building new expressways and minimize the widening of existing ones....but if we're gonna do it, tolls are the way to go.

Tufsu   are you involved in BC corridor east-west roadway/wetland belt ?

[tufsu1]

Given US DOT transportation planning requirements, I simply cannot see how FDOT or Clay County will be able to shove this project down the throat of the Mayor of Jacksonville.  The numbers don't work.

you know as well as I do that USDOT requirements are based on what a given MPO has adopted...and there you have it.

By what stretch of the imagination is this a cost feasible project?

if it is funded by tolls, you don't have to use existing federal/state/local revenue sources.

fact, the whole Outer Beltway is included in FDOT's Strategic Intermodal System Cost Feasible Plan....and the MPOs in the state have stayed consitent with that when developing their LRTPs

[north miami]

Thankfully, the opposition to this project locally seems to be universal

hard;ly....I virtually guarantee this road gets built

quoted for posterity

It will.
-N.Miami

[buckethead]

I will be waiting for the kudos from the local Tea Party.

There won't be any waiting to hear it from me. Kudos Mayor Brown.

On behalf of the Tea Party (not that I'm a member) I'd like to thank Mayor Brown for standing up to the powers that be (road building magnates).

I wonder if Hogan would have done the same...

[thelakelander]

No. Hogan would have been there with the Lt. Gov and gave quotes for the paper about this stimulating jobs and economic development for a 21st century Jax.

[Dashing Dan]

fact, the whole Outer Beltway is included in FDOT's Strategic Intermodal System Cost Feasible Plan....and the MPOs in the state have stayed consitent with that when developing their LRTPs

Even if everybody agrees that pigs can fly, that doesn't mean that pigs can fly. 

This project is dead.

[Dashing Dan]

By what stretch of the imagination is this a cost feasible project?

if it is funded by tolls, you don't have to use existing federal/state/local revenue sources.

What you're saying here is that this particular stretch of the imagination is an incredibly long stretch.

[north miami]

Thankfully, the opposition to this project locally seems to be universal

hard;ly....I virtually guarantee this road gets built

quoted for posterity

Already Done as far as the current subject matter;key I-10/Blanding link.
Gone is era when Clay County Planner Dick Post defended the vast wetlasnd belt complex west of Orange as the major regional sensitive water recharge region that it is.
Gone is the dirt road depicted in a Florida Times Union photo;defiant North Miami leaning against a Brannon Chaffee/Blanding Blvd sign.Gone is the Pacjic era Duval Delegation that Did not embrace funding,even in the face of lavish Lobster dinner lobby efforts by the Clay Chamber.Gone is the 1900 acre Trust for Public Lands option.Gone is the Brannon Chaffee Sector Plan,Lake Asbury Sector Plan (Two of them!).Gone is the FDOT legally binding NO BUILD option.Gone is the FDOT Brannon Chaffee I-10/Blanding permit application placed before COE and Water Management District,under the known erroneous premise that the I-10/Blanding section permit was for,in the words of FDOT a "stand alone project"......"with no current plans for extension".
The strong letter of support from Mayor Delaney that helped sway COE better not be gone from the public record.
Soon gone would COE Joe Miller, who would call me on his cell phone at Brannon Chaffee ground breaking.....to apologize and then soon end up,for a very short period,as Delaney Administration Green Public Works director.

how's that for Posterity??

[dougskiles]

North Miami, are you saying it will or will not get built?

[tufsu1]

Even if everybody agrees that pigs can fly, that doesn't mean that pigs can fly. 

This project is dead.

wow...while I'd like to think you're right....I know better!

I mean, did you notice that the Mayor has basically admitted he can't do anything about this road....and will instead talk to the Governor about Jax. not wanting any other toll roads.

[Dashing Dan]

This project is Humpty Dumpty and you're talking about all the kings horses and all the kings men.

[fieldafm]

Am I the only one that thinks people are solely against this road b/c of tolls?  I really don't think many in Duval County would object to building the road(case in point, something like 5 people showed up to the public meeting about the Pecan Park extension and no one opposed it)... they just don't want tolls.  This city has a thing against tolls.  I vividly remember watching Tommy Hazzouri blow up a toll when I was a child.

As a side-note, I think it's extremely humerous to tout this as a public-private partnership when the 'company' building the road is owned by FDOT.  So the state creating a seperate company in order to take on debt to build the road is somehow considered a private-sector venture?

[thelakelander]

Probably so.

As a side-note, I think it's extremely humerous to tout this as a public-private partnership when the 'company' building the road is owned by FDOT.  So the state creating a seperate company in order to take on debt to build the road is somehow considered a private-sector venture?

Yes, this piece of the deal is very hilarious.