Jacksonville mayor comes out against new toll road

[Dashing Dan]

Thankfully, the opposition to this project locally seems to be universal

hard;ly....I virtually guarantee this road gets built

This road was nearly dead before this happened, now it's dead for sure.

[thelakelander]

I don't think FDOT really cares to much about Brown's opinion on this project or if it will pay for itself. Their entire operation wouldn't be feasible without tax dollars, so why worry about it now (from their perspective)?

[Dashing Dan]

I don't think FDOT really cares to much about Brown's opinion on this project or if it will pay for itself. Their entire operation wouldn't be feasible without tax dollars, so why worry about it now (from their perspective)?

An original purpose of metropolitan planning organizations was to protect cities from state highway departments.

[thelakelander]

^Our TPO wants the Outer Beltway.  Its been on their LRTP for years.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Personally, I think that the mayor is hitting a single with this one, and moving a runner into scoring position. 

He said that he's against the tolls - this will give him some credibility witht the teapartiers and repubs that are against the tolls per the tax raise a decade ago.

He qualified by saying that he's also against the road in general - this will give him some credibility with the left and the centrists that are already against sprawl.

Whether or not Tallahassee will agree with his position and kill it or goes ahead with the project anyway is out of his hands, but he made his stand and I am fully on board with him.  If the project tanks and he can take some responsibility for it, even better.

[jcjohnpaint]

I totally agree.  I feel that the TU did not elaborate on his thoughts, but maybe gave their narrow opinion.  I am sure he is against the road for more reasons than tolls, but he took a good stance and I commend him for doing this.  Nothing about this project makes any sense and the mayor agrees. 

[Dashing Dan]

^Our TPO wants the Outer Beltway.  Its been on their LRTP for years.

I'm very aware of the TPO position.  It is what it is. 

But given the new mayor's new position on this project, I believe that the TPO position is no longer tenable.

Even before this new development, there had been a lot of wishful thinking by the TPO about this project.

Given US DOT transportation planning requirements, I simply cannot see how FDOT or Clay County will be able to shove this project down the throat of the Mayor of Jacksonville.  The numbers don't work.

[thelakelander]

All I'll say is I hope you're right and that Brown has the ability to kill this project the same way Scott took out HSR.

[Dashing Dan]

I've been present at the funeral for at least one highway project that was bigger than this one.

[tufsu1]

^Our TPO wants the Outer Beltway.  Its been on their LRTP for years.

plus its a top TPO priority project,,,and I highly doubt that's gonna change...remember, the majority of the road is in Clay County...and they want it....plus there are plenty of folks in Duval that also want it.

fact is the 15-mile Branan Field-Chafee Expressway (precursor to the full 45 mile outer beltway) has been on maps since the late 1970s.

and during the Reality Check exercise, all 30 tables drew it in....almost as if it was a given.

[Dashing Dan]

and during the Reality Check exercise, all 30 tables drew it in....almost as if it was a given.

That says more about Reality Check than about the project. 

If the numbers had ever worked it would have been built by now.

[tufsu1]

If the numbers had ever worked it would have been built by now.

I think the numbers can work for the 15-mile segment....from what I figure, the capital costs can be recouped after about 12 years.

and don't forget, the Turnpike Enterprise makes $ on the Turnpike mainline itself (especially in So Fla) that allows them to subsidize other roads for many years....examples include the Polk Parkway and the Suncoast Parkway

[tufsu1]

Thankfully, the opposition to this project locally seems to be universal

hard;ly....I virtually guarantee this road gets built

quoted for posterity

is there something you are trying to say?

[tufsu1]

Given US DOT transportation planning requirements, I simply cannot see how FDOT or Clay County will be able to shove this project down the throat of the Mayor of Jacksonville.  The numbers don't work.

you know as well as I do that USDOT requirements are based on what a given MPO has adopted...and there you have it.

[Ocklawaha]

I'm thrilled that the mayor has stood up to the TPO and Highway lobby on this project, win, lose, or draw, he has done the right thing.

From a pure transportation guy standpoint there are but two possible major new roads in the west Jax area that make any sense to me.

1. Four lane Lenox Avenue to Old Middleburg to a point north of Argyle, and hence a limited access highway (complete with limited interchanges) between Old Middleburg and 301 near Starke.

This is a bit scary as this map is dated in 2011, so its far from dead.


Recent alternative analysis, Southwest Georgia Interstate Study. http://dot.ga.gov/informationcenter/programs/studies/SWGAInterstate/Pages/default.aspx

2. I-22, which at one time was proposed as a Kansas City - Jacksonville interstate highway and multi-modal corridor. Today much of this new road is complete in Missouri-Tennessee-Mississippi and Alabama and it will currently terminate in Birmingham but plans are for it to now end at the port of Brunswick. Savannah is pushing hard to 'bend the road' across to their port via Columbus and we apparently are doing nothing. Bringing this in a diagonal from Columbus to Albany to Valdosta to Jacksonville could make us THE Atlantic port for midwest/southwest grain. As far as Jacksonville is concerned it would probably come in along the Norfolk Southern Railroad through Montiac and St. George tapping into our road system along the MLK on the far NW side of the city. This road could be a game changer for Jaxport and it might also allow us to syphon much commercial traffic off of I-75.

OCKLAWAHA