Author Topic: Sears: The Cadillac Store Of The South  (Read 13931 times)

Gravity

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Re: Sears: The Cadillac Store Of The South
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2011, 12:49:54 PM »
Current auto-centric zoning downtown does not encourage infill and pedestrian-scaled development.  It was 'de-regulated' years ago and what we have today are suburbanized, auto-centric building projects that have been stuffed in an urban environment like a child in kindegarden tries to stuff a round peg into a square hole.

so that was deregulated, un-intelligently or re-regulated un-intelligently, not what i am talking about. You still have other regulations: business, occupancy and zoning regulations that prevent the kinds of businesses that have rebuilt other downtown areas. The "auto-centric" is one example, but people have cars, especially in this town, and you need a place to put them unless you fix public transportation. 

We do not need another committee

thelakelander

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Re: Sears: The Cadillac Store Of The South
« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2011, 01:07:10 PM »
I think the "organic economic anchor" point is different from the "identity, marketable, parking, policy angle."  I see those as more ground level band aid solutions that will definitely have a positive impact on DT at street level that make suburbanites feel good about vibrancy.  However, the "organic economic anchor" is something that sustains, generates growth, employment long term and creates a neighborhood vibe of its own.  For example, take a look at Seattle's waterfront.  Its not pristine and completely lined with luxury condos and green space.  Its littered with thousands of people and activity generated from ferry terminals, port terminals, fisheries, etc.  All that activity in a compact setting, creates viable business opportunities for attractions like Pike Place and support businesses like restaurants and retail.  That activity, then creates a unique urban experience where people want to come visit, which then brings hotels into the mix.  At that point, you now have people willing to pay hundreds of thousands to live in infill luxury housing to be in the middle of the vibrant atmosphere. 

We basically had the same logistics based organic economic model in our downtown.  We removed the industry, maritime businesses and railroad and still wonder why the DT environment sucks for places (retail, residential, hotel, tourism, etc.) that are really a byproduct of the anchor system we took out.  So, from a bird's eye view, let's try and address the basic premises of a built-in economic anchor, based on the physical and locational characteristics of the context (environment) already in place.  With this in mind, something like a new convention center or amusement park may not be the one trick economic pony some make it out them out to be.  It just may be giving up some waterfront or land to expand or attract a maritime related or blue collar oriented business instead of a riverfront park, aquarium or floating ship museum.  On the flip side, it could also mean utilizing existing assets like Baptist or Shands as anchors and selling DT as an urban medical district instead of throwing away incentives on financial companies that will most likely merge, reduce office space and lay workers off as technology advances.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2011, 01:12:48 PM by thelakelander »
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Wacca Pilatka

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Re: Sears: The Cadillac Store Of The South
« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2011, 02:10:48 PM »
Quote
...the redevelopment of the site into the Enterprise Center and Omni Hotel, both of which remain in this location today.

Which have to be two of the ugliest structures ever built downtown.

I'm curious to know what you dislike about the Enterprise Center?
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Re: Sears: The Cadillac Store Of The South
« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2011, 02:36:17 PM »
I wholeheartedly agree with Gravity, but respect the counter response by Lakelander. But let's face facts, as we all have somewhat agreed on one thing in this thread; in today's world, you MUST have people living within close proximity and the confines of retail, stores, etc. in order for them to be successful. Many of the Urban Cores and Downtowns, not only in Jacksonville but in the majority of ALL of our major cities, just don't have the population and residential numbers and base that would support not only one huge store, but many stores of different types selling a myriad of products. Gotta get the people back downtown and then we can lure Walmart, K-Mart, Sears, Jewelry Stores, expensive restaurants, fast food chains, furniture stores, etc. back to the Urban Core and downtown.

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Re: Sears: The Cadillac Store Of The South
« Reply #19 on: June 22, 2011, 02:39:10 PM »
I don't dislike the Omni or the Enterprise Center, but what I don't like is that if I remember correctly, when the buildings that now constitute the Enterprise was built, there were supposed to be more office buildings (skyscrapers) built and they never were; i.e., the Enterprise Center never lived up to its initial and full potential (as every other project or development envisioned for downtown Jacksonville).

"HU"
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duvaldude08

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Re: Sears: The Cadillac Store Of The South
« Reply #20 on: June 22, 2011, 02:45:32 PM »
I don't dislike the Omni or the Enterprise Center, but what I don't like is that if I remember correctly, when the buildings that now constitute the Enterprise was built, there were supposed to be more office buildings (skyscrapers) built and they never were; i.e., the Enterprise Center never lived up to its initial and full potential (as every other project or development envisioned for downtown Jacksonville).

"HU"

Yes that is correct. I think it was part of the downtown master plan from back then. And it was supposed to be some huge project that never came to past. Article like this also explains why the skyway goes nowhere. If you look at a map, you will see that the skyway is on our old retail route. Sadly, but the time is was built the retail was gone. The skyway just too long to manifest.
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thelakelander

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Re: Sears: The Cadillac Store Of The South
« Reply #21 on: June 22, 2011, 02:51:40 PM »
I wholeheartedly agree with Gravity, but respect the counter response by Lakelander. But let's face facts, as we all have somewhat agreed on one thing in this thread; in today's world, you MUST have people living within close proximity and the confines of retail, stores, etc. in order for them to be successful. Many of the Urban Cores and Downtowns, not only in Jacksonville but in the majority of ALL of our major cities, just don't have the population and residential numbers and base that would support not only one huge store, but many stores of different types selling a myriad of products. Gotta get the people back downtown and then we can lure Walmart, K-Mart, Sears, Jewelry Stores, expensive restaurants, fast food chains, furniture stores, etc. back to the Urban Core and downtown.

"HU"

At the very core, if you want the people and you don't want to susidize them, you need an organic economic anchor.  In general, the things we tend to focus on regarding downtown vibrancy are all byproducts of a missing organic anchor.  People populate in places for certain organic reasons.  In Tampa, it was the cigar industry.  In Detroit, it was the automobile industry.  Orlando bloomed with the Disney and ancillary businesses that came with that.  DT Jax boomed because of the activity associated with the meeting of the railroad and maritime industries.  Looking into the future of DT Jax, what's the next anchor that will attract all the little things we tend to pay more attention too like residential, retail, entertainment and tourism?
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thelakelander

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Re: Sears: The Cadillac Store Of The South
« Reply #22 on: June 22, 2011, 02:55:21 PM »
I don't dislike the Omni or the Enterprise Center, but what I don't like is that if I remember correctly, when the buildings that now constitute the Enterprise was built, there were supposed to be more office buildings (skyscrapers) built and they never were; i.e., the Enterprise Center never lived up to its initial and full potential (as every other project or development envisioned for downtown Jacksonville).

"HU"

Imo, of course they'll never deliver what people claim they will.  They aren't organic economic anchors.  They aren't places that breed hundreds of well paying jobs or spur support businesses and services.  My guess is a new convention center, movie theater, amusement park, another Landing or public park won't either.  To get to the root of DT's problems, we've got to look at things, plan and implement from a more holistic level.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Overstreet

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Re: Sears: The Cadillac Store Of The South
« Reply #23 on: June 22, 2011, 03:22:42 PM »
Most of the Sears store is still located on that corner. Story is that they filled the basement in with rubble from the building. It is still there.

Garden guy

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Re: Sears: The Cadillac Store Of The South
« Reply #24 on: June 22, 2011, 03:57:28 PM »
What industry would use the river yet not pollute it?...imo our downtown could do well if the river was used for making money...on any given day that river is almost empty...why are we missing this opportunity for some reason...how about a boating school...hmm...wonder what kind of cash that makes...i had the idea of a monthly kayak race down the middle of the bridges...sounds like fun...good luck downtown...I've got my fingers crossed for you.

Wacca Pilatka

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Re: Sears: The Cadillac Store Of The South
« Reply #25 on: June 22, 2011, 04:50:08 PM »
I don't dislike the Omni or the Enterprise Center, but what I don't like is that if I remember correctly, when the buildings that now constitute the Enterprise was built, there were supposed to be more office buildings (skyscrapers) built and they never were; i.e., the Enterprise Center never lived up to its initial and full potential (as every other project or development envisioned for downtown Jacksonville).

"HU"

I think the Enterprise was supposed to be four towers (including the hotel) and so was Renaissance Place, the project proposed for the City Hall Annex/Courthouse area that was never constructed due to a protracted negotiation over a Skyway extension followed by the recession of the early 90s.
The tourist would realize at once that he had struck the Land of Flowers - the City Beautiful!

Henry J. Klutho

TheGeo35

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Re: Sears: The Cadillac Store Of The South
« Reply #26 on: June 22, 2011, 04:56:00 PM »
I remember visiting the Sears store when I was a kid. I was impressed by the store and the location, being right near the river. It's amazing how things change!

Old Jim

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Re: Sears: The Cadillac Store Of The South
« Reply #27 on: June 22, 2011, 08:37:47 PM »
The property was purchased from the Seaboard Air Line RR, not the SCL. The SCL did not come into being until the late 1960s. This was also the site of the old SAL Hogan Street rail yard that operated in downtown until the property was sold. It is my understanding that most of the boxcars were moved at night to avoid traffic problems. Good article.

iMarvin

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Re: Sears: The Cadillac Store Of The South
« Reply #28 on: June 22, 2011, 08:55:12 PM »
What is Enterprise Center?

thelakelander

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Re: Sears: The Cadillac Store Of The South
« Reply #29 on: June 22, 2011, 09:04:06 PM »
The highrise on the corner of Hogan and Water Street.  Wachovia was the major tenant but after being taken over by Wells Fargo, they're in the process of moving to Independent Square.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali